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Thread: Are GSD's getting bigger?? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-07-2014 09:56 AM
Mary Beth I have read this thread with interest because I also "landed in the oversize world". My Sting is 130 lbs. and 30 inches tall - twice the size of his other littermates who matured at 75 lbs. average. I found this thread very informative as to the history and the lines that were used by Der Hauptmann. I am very happy that there are breeders like Doc who are continuing to breed the gsds from the large line.
02-01-2014 09:52 PM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout's Mama View Post
David Winners, the dog is absolutely gorgeous. Well done!
Thanks!
02-01-2014 09:40 PM
Scout's Mama David Winners, the dog is absolutely gorgeous. Well done!
02-01-2014 09:24 PM
bill Very good looking dogs Onyx/ girl.Bill
02-01-2014 08:16 PM
Chip18 Oh and the 125 to 140 lb (non fat I'm assuming) are they real or is it the doggy equivalent of "Big Foot"
or "BevCoon" the face of a Beaver and the body of a Racoon?

I Carly reference.
02-01-2014 08:11 PM
Chip18 WOW!!! Holy crap and...case closed! I could live with a 95 lb GSD. And yeah a "tad" over.
02-01-2014 07:43 PM
onyx'girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
Tad is a little vague?

My guy was a rescue and I landed in the oversize world. 117 lbs, I thought that was normal till I saw my son in laws two GSD's one Blk and one White. I was shocked at how "small" they were.

I understand the logic but for me I just don't think I could have a smaller GSD, I'd get a Malonis instead. I've heard tales of 125 to 150 lbs GSD's is that real? And I don't mean obviously fat or over weight dogs.
My male is 95# and 27"(I have a female almost the same size) She isn't as agile as he is/never has been.


My pack/females are quite large for the standard as well:
02-01-2014 07:03 PM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
He wasn't bred for size, he just ended up on the larger end of the spectrum. But then he isn't that large, just a tad over the standard.
Tad is a little vague?

My guy was a rescue and I landed in the oversize world. 117 lbs, I thought that was normal till I saw my son in laws two GSD's one Blk and one White. I was shocked at how "small" they were.

I understand the logic but for me I just don't think I could have a smaller GSD, I'd get a Malonis instead. I've heard tales of 125 to 150 lbs GSD's is that real? And I don't mean obviously fat or over weight dogs.
02-01-2014 06:22 PM
onyx'girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffson1 View Post
I didn't think breeding on any of them things exclusively(except nerve) is positive for the breed. I have seen 100 plus lb dogs in LE on quite a few occaisions though more so in the past than today. I have also seen sixty lb males in LE that were effective. I would not specifically breed for either, but have seen them with excellent working aptitude. As for old guard, my dogs and I are in the here and now, but my feeling for the breed is based almost entirely on working traits. I TRULY believe the beauty of the breed is in it's performance.....whether it is 50 lbs or 100 lbs; having said that I acknowledge that moderate dogs in general have had a higher percent of having the working capability. I agree with you that there are infinite opinions and experts on this breed, so there is no reason to put anyone on pedestal,.....as for my comment about training, I merely am saying that I have a low prey drive old guard type dog right now and I would be interested if he could be successful at this driven training work many do today, or is the new drive plus dogs and training of TODAY just too much for those old types.
I prefer this type of dog, but know it is a challenge with training if you aren't training the dog in its natural drive and expecting something else.
One thing I love about the GSD is that it isn't a cookie cutter looking dog, but diversified in the coat length, color and structure. Still the bottlenecking occurs.
I have a dog in which everyone comments on his size.
I don't see him being so big that it impeeds on his performance at all. He's very athletic and agile, shows power in his fight drive. He wasn't bred for size, he just ended up on the larger end of the spectrum. But then he isn't that large, just a tad over the standard.
02-01-2014 05:59 PM
Wanderer I've gotten through 2/3rd of the post and finally have to throw in my 2 cents.

Intrinsic in the breed has always been a wide variety of sizes. The GSD should be a 'do anything' dog, and from within the framework of the breed standard, you pick the type in size and temperament to best suit the task you have.

IMHO first should come soundness of mind to do a thousand tasks. Second should come soundness of body to do a thousand tasks. Third is to worry about fine points of conformation, and fourth the color of coat.

Now, there are some raw truths related to size you just can't get away from. Getting bigger means at some point reduction in agility, endurance, and speed. Exactly where this is can vary based on other body features (being longer in the legs vs not, quality of hips, etc). Don't get caught up on weight, get caught up in ability (or lack). It's reasonable to hear of a 125 lb dog and say 'I would fear his size may be impeding his ability' but it is wrong to say that it happens in all cases. Further, if my choices were between a 125 dog with a slight limitation on his overall agility and endurance but the dog had a stellar temperament vs a smaller more agile and faster dog who was a spook or fell into offering an aggressive exterior because every stranger was a perceived as a threat....I'd take the over-sized dog.

But the real problem is too many GSD owners who want one for a pet really want a golden retriever dressed up to look like a GSD. They want those stellar defense and working characteristics of a GSD just in case some day they'd need them, yet don't want to pay the price (and I am not talking currency) that comes with those abilities. This same group of buyers with their very superficial view also tend to think that bigger is better. And honestly for their needs, they may be right. They probably don't WANT a dog that is capable of really stopping an armed intruder, they want a dog that LOOKS like it could. Really, this is similar to the people who don't have the mindset nor willing to practice enough to be responsible gun owners, so instead they want a realistic fake gun in the hopes it would intimidate trouble away.

Note that this size increase isn't just limited to GSDs. It is frequently the case of whenever there are show lines vs field lines, the show lines are bigger. One area where I see it outside of show/field lines is in labs. True hard working field line breeders, the dogs that people who hunt a ton with, are staying the same size, the champion conformation dogs are something else entirely, but the majority of dogs are sold as pets outright or to occasional hunters who want a pet and a hunting dog. These people start heaping other tasks on the dog. Often it is wanting a great pet or a great pet occasional hunting help PLUS wanting a dog that can run off burglars and successfully tangle with 4 legged trouble as well. They don't really think about the oversized aspect hindering the dog's agility and endurance mainly because they are never in situations where they come close to maxing out the dog's ability. In that light, I can't say their decision is wrong. They are choosing the features that they most want and sacrifice the ability they don't really need (the endurance to hunt think cover for 12 hours straight and do 50 water retrieves).

Truth is most people don't need or want the kind of dog envisioned by Von Stephanitz. As mentioned before, they really want a golden retriever dressed up to look like a GSD...a big GSD. The invisible hand of the market will provide them what they want to buy. It's just the hard luck of 'real' GSD fanciers that the easiest source is to breed away from what VS GSDs are really about.
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