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Thread: Would it be stupid to not get my GSD titled Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-18-2013 11:35 AM
Jmoore728 [quote=boomer11;4688154]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmoore728 View Post

you can start your pup on bite work now. start with a rag on a flirt pole to build drive. then you can move to a bite pillow for targeting and grip work. then you can move to a sleeve. its all fun for the pup and most good working dogs love it. schuzthund bite work is just a game so you can even wear the sleeve yourself if you know what your doing. and yes the high 90 scores are from the schuzthund protection phase. this means the dog has nice grip and nice drive and is good at the game. if your breeder is actually working or trailing her dogs then she should be your main source for schutzhund/bite work info. she'll be motivated to help you because she is motivated to help pups from her kennel succeed.

btw i like the name bane. i think im going to name my next pup vader.
He was the "B" liter and the kennel had him named Bane. The name grew on me so we decided to keep the name...,Vader is a sweet name.....
I don't know how far Bane will take me...He might end up a great family pet/watch dog....If so, that will be perfectly fine. Usually their bark or presence alone will deter most people that are up to no good. I'll keep working with him and see what he is capable of doing. Once he matures I would like to find out his threshold just so I know.
12-17-2013 10:39 PM
Jmoore728
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
I don't agree with this....if you are serious about training and possibly titling your dog, don't go about it without some help(help meaning an experienced IPO helper/trainer) Remember the saying 'no training is better than bad training' and young dogs if they "have it" will have it when they are a yr old. Let the pup get thru teething and in the meantime, decide where/what you want to do, go to a club or few and observe, learn. I wouldn't just fly by the seat of your pants....it'll bite you in the butt, especially if the dog has SL's in the pedigree.
Good information. I'm doing very little with him right now. Just letting him be a puppy and keeping everything positive. Just doing normal obedience stuff (sit, down, that's about it). Playing a little tug with him at times. I will discontinue all mouth games at 16 weeks and wait until after he is finished teething before doing any more. Trying to take him to as many places as possible..

I'm trying to avoid bad habits created by me or the family. I know I will make mistakes along the way, hopefully I can get them to a minimum. The kennel has all the necessary tools for when I start doing bite work type of stuff. I will probably invest in a sleeve at some point.

Equipment bias I'm sorta struggling with right now (toys)... I bought a few tugs of different sizes. Already have a good collection of toys, but I've been buying more along the way. Still trying to find that favorite one. The two tugs I bought are made from fire hose....He isn't crazy about it....It's a lot firmer. He isn't getting a very good grip on it....I'm not doing any formal training though...Just playing with him daily...I'm sure I'm creating some bad habits...As in laying down during tug play time....My fault for allowing him to. Not laying down in a lazy way, we tug around and when I eventually let him win....He will sometimes lay down and romp on his toy....

My main concern is bad trianing.. That's one reason I'm doing very little training with him until after he teeths. I will def, without question, seek help with someone that has experience with SchH, IPO, bitework, etc when that time comes. I keep in touch with the breeder and will be working Bane a lot at her kennel.

I made a flirt pole a few weeks ago.....I use it on occasion. He got to the point where he was biting the lead instead...lol....I also made a bamboo chatter stick...There is a field close to my house that has a lot of bamboo....I swiped a few...My first one worked okay, but it's durability isn't the best. I'll buy one here soon,...

I'll keep you updated on progress and my goof ups.
12-17-2013 07:43 PM
onyx'girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer11 View Post
you can start your pup on bite work now. start with a rag on a flirt pole to build drive. then you can move to a bite pillow for targeting and grip work. then you can move to a sleeve. its all fun for the pup and most good working dogs love it. schuzthund bite work is just a game so you can even wear the sleeve yourself if you know what your doing. and yes the high 90 scores are from the schuzthund protection phase. this means the dog has nice grip and nice drive and is good at the game. if your breeder is actually working or trailing her dogs then she should be your main source for schutzhund/bite work info. she'll be motivated to help you because she is motivated to help pups from her kennel succeed.

btw i like the name bane. i think im going to name my next pup vader.
I don't agree with this....if you are serious about training and possibly titling your dog, don't go about it without some help(help meaning an experienced IPO helper/trainer) Remember the saying 'no training is better than bad training' and young dogs if they "have it" will have it when they are a yr old. Let the pup get thru teething and in the meantime, decide where/what you want to do, go to a club or few and observe, learn. I wouldn't just fly by the seat of your pants....it'll bite you in the butt, especially if the dog has SL's in the pedigree.
12-17-2013 07:28 PM
boomer11 [quote=Jmoore728;4686898]
Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
If I wanted to work Bane on the sleeve or suit in the future, is this something that I should approach with caution also? Would this be considered prey drive work?
you can start your pup on bite work now. start with a rag on a flirt pole to build drive. then you can move to a bite pillow for targeting and grip work. then you can move to a sleeve. its all fun for the pup and most good working dogs love it. schuzthund bite work is just a game so you can even wear the sleeve yourself if you know what your doing. and yes the high 90 scores are from the schuzthund protection phase. this means the dog has nice grip and nice drive and is good at the game. if your breeder is actually working or trailing her dogs then she should be your main source for schutzhund/bite work info. she'll be motivated to help you because she is motivated to help pups from her kennel succeed.

btw i like the name bane. i think im going to name my next pup vader.
12-17-2013 04:48 PM
Jmoore728
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer11 View Post
if you want to work him on the suit with mostly prey and no defense then thats schutzhund. thats basically on your way to getting your dog titled. now if you want a TRUE personal protection dog then working your dog on a sleeve through prey is discouraged. if your dog thinks a sleeve is prey and its all a game then the dog will always see it that way. with pp dogs you dont want them to think its a game.

i found your kennel and looked through the website and in no way are they breeding dogs meant for true personal protection work. the website even states their goal is to breed good family pets. they are mixing and matching show and working lines. they have an ipo section on their website and i'm sure your dog could do schutzhund but i highly doubt it could handle pp work.
You might be 100% correct. I do know for sure her kennel has produced some active K9's SAR, etc....But a true PPD, you are probably correct. As far as true PPD, I will have to ask her about it..Banes father who is now 3 years old is excelling well at his bitework/PP work. She just started the PP/bitework with him a few months ago....Banes grandfather had pretty good protection scores in his SchH scores...95,96, and 94 I think..But this is very different than a true PPD from what I've read.....
12-17-2013 04:32 PM
Jmoore728 She does have "showline" bloodlines but she also has pure working bloodlines....Most of her dogs have both....But more on the showline I think.....She took a break from running her kennel full time for a few years to take a rescue job full time. Took a little break from breeding, but still maintained her dogs. As far as their working ability, they don't lack...I been around her dogs quite a bit and I've talked to quite a few people that own her puppies....I'm not experienced enough to debate the showline vs working line.....I'm sure there is a difference, but I would also think it varied greatly by which bloodline you were looking at....Probably a lot of bad showline GSD bloodlines out there....I don't doubt that. But I've only heard great things about her dogs over the past few years.... We didn't a training session with one of the Stillwater K9 officers a few years back and he talked very highly of her dogs also.....If that means anything. It wouldn't be good for me to own a true working line yet in my opinion. Hopefully I will be able to purchase a true working line dog in a few years....Watching them compete on video is jaw dropping. Truly amazes me....At this point, I would probably have problems starting with a 100% working line GSD,,,, Not the dogs fault, but I wouldn't want the dog to suffer due to me now knowing what to do with my hands...lol

As far as my pup, I'm completely happy with him as my family is too (to date) I could care less if he is a true working line or showline as long as he is confident, structurally stable, good temperament and good nerves...

I've read more than I can handle over the past 6 months....my interest started with Schutzhund about 5 years ago when I purchased my first GSD... I've read "Schutzhund Theory and Training Methods by Susan Barwig and Stewart Hilliard several times, watched most of the Leerburg Michael Ellis videos, and Spent countless hours on this forum reading...I'm aware of possible problems in training, what to watch for, do this, do that....etc....I lack handler experience..I had to cut my females training short when learning of her joint problems....Her X-rays at 12 months old were very bad....I didn't want to push her, so we stick with the ball and swimming from then on,,,, But the research has helped me a ton in seeing things out... I'm learning and picking up things as I go....
12-17-2013 04:02 PM
Jmoore728 [QUOTE=selzer;4686498]Jmoore, I am going to offer a little unsolicited advice and you can take it or leave it, but I ask that you at least read it and consider it.

If you are a novice at dog training, possibly a novice at owning a dog, my advice to you is to go the IPO route first. You seem to have PP first on your list. And there was some mention of professional training, which I am not wholly against (I am talking about sending your dog away for training), I wouldn't do this, but I understand that it makes sense for some people.

But, working dogs are, well, working dogs. In order to be suitable for even IPO, they have to have a temperament that isn't going to be a shrinking violet. Which means, they can be a challenge for people who haven't owned a working dog yet. Some are very biddible, others require a very confident leader who will give the dog plenty of exercise and mentally tire the dog out, while not allowing the dog to be overly pushy. They require training that is fair, and flexible, that builds the bond of trust and leadership between you and the dog.

This is enough to be going on with on a first-time GSD. Get your BH, and then go for IPO. If you finish that, and you are charged about the dog and want to go farther, then PP training will not disappear in the next two years. I think that it would be better to start out with a great dog and do the IPO, it will train you how to train, and what to look for in your next dog. And maybe you will see that a well-trained dog is all the deterrant that you need. But if not. You will be ready then to move on to the next step in dog trainining.

I just think personal protection dog training for a newbie can be a recipe for disaster.[/QUOTE

I agree 100%.... I did a very poor job of explaining my goals....I don't want to create anything bad by making common "new trainer mistakes". As for my pup, I'm confident in him so far. Regarding his temperament, nerves, etc....He is only 13 weeks old, so I'm sure it's yet a little early to say this. .Currently my main focus is exposing him to as many new places as possible and people. I've taken him with me a handful of times to pick my son up from school.. We actually have to wait in line outside and sign my son out. So far he has been great around all the kids..kids running around, petting him, etc. Everything I do with him is accomplished with 100% positive reinforcement...Lots and lots of tasty treats. I plan to keep this up

If I wanted to work Bane on the sleeve or suit in the future, is this something that I should approach with caution also? Would this be considered prey drive work?

My previous German Shepherd was a new GSD owners worst nightmare. Lying corrupt, breeder....I ended up a GSD that had hip and elbow dysplasia and she got diagnosed with cancer at 4 1/2 years old....Just the cancer part cost me several thousand dollars by the time it was done.... We didn't get her until she was 5-6 months old(maybe older) ....She ended up being VERY protective over the family.. Crazy Protective and her ball drive was crazy. Her racquet ball was her pride and joy...She def had her faults but she was a big part of our family. She was great with our kids and kids in general. Her joint problems made me have to limit the goals I had....Figured I would give a little history.....

Again, my attention isn't to argue...I will surely lose...Everything you guys post, I take very seriously.... The knowledge of this forum has helped me greatly ....
12-17-2013 03:50 PM
jocoyn I found the website and did not bounce much around because my Kaspersky virus program gave me a Trojan warning. Just an FYI for anyone else, not a judgement call.

But I did see mainly showline dogs. I had assumed working line from the post but, once again, each dog an individual.
12-17-2013 03:45 PM
boomer11 if you want to work him on the suit with mostly prey and no defense then thats schutzhund. thats basically on your way to getting your dog titled. now if you want a TRUE personal protection dog then working your dog on a sleeve through prey is discouraged. if your dog thinks a sleeve is prey and its all a game then the dog will always see it that way. with pp dogs you dont want them to think its a game.

i found your kennel and looked through the website and in no way are they breeding dogs meant for true personal protection work. the website even states their goal is to breed good family pets. they are mixing and matching show and working lines. they have an ipo section on their website and i'm sure your dog could do schutzhund but i highly doubt it could handle pp work.
12-17-2013 03:31 PM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmoore728 View Post
I don't think I've explained my goals very well..I was rereading the posts and I think I gave you guys the wrong impression. .When I say PPD, what I'm meaning is I want to work him on the sleeve, and suit eventually...Mostly Prey drive and minimal fight/defensive drive as he matures. I don't plan to teach him to bite on command. I'm way to green for a true PPD. I have much to learn....When he matures, I do plan on having his fight/defensive drive tested by someone with a lot of experience to see how his nerves are. I want to know....His father and grandfather is very confident with great nerves...Both great on the protection side with great temperament .As is his mother. I won't do anything that I can't handle or the dog can't handle. If something doesn't seem right, I will bail out completely...Sorry for making it sound like I was wanting a "CEO" type PPD.....My goal is to have a confident male that is a great family dog.
IPO, will train the dog in obedience, tracking, and protection -- bite work, the dog goes for the sleeve, and learns to bark and hold, and learns to out. That is just a part of it though.

The BH, is a test that you do with the dog, after training the dog in obedience. In the test you move through a crowd, heel on and off lead, do some agility, and there is some temperament stuff as well, including a gun shot. I think that originally, passing the BH was the step prior to schutzhund/IPO training in the three phases. It is a good goal to start with. And then you can move on with the dog and learn together.
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