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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-19-2014 04:08 PM
Blitzkrieg1 There are some dogs that are not approachable and it has nothing to do with nerves. I have seen police dogs like this.
In the right dog its something that you can create if you so choose or inhibit if you want a neutral dog.
01-19-2014 02:16 PM
John C. Hi Carmspack,

I suspect you and I are more in agreement than disagreement. Your comments remind me of a dog that was in my schutzhund club. Leerburg dog, owned by an experienced dog handler who was bought specifically to compete in schutzhund. The helper could have hit this dog with a 2 x 4 and it wouldn't have backed down. But he was a real handful. Would literally start quivering before he took the field, he was so keyed up. And he wasn't all that interested in pleasing his hander. He might jump over the barrier to retrieve the dumbell, or he might take a wiz on it.

I agree, that having a serious dog, and a family dog are not mutually exclusive. But, and I think this is a big but, you have to have a great breeder, and an owner who is not only experienced but also willing to spend a lot of time doing some kind of training.

I'm concerned about someone who comes on this forum, spends a lot of time researching breeders for the "best" GSD and thinks his job is done once he's found a breeder and written the check. The kind of drives and temperment you need to get a dog like this are basically inconsistent with an inexperienced handler who is unwilling to spend a lot of time in training.
01-19-2014 02:02 PM
Blanketback Aww, come on, say it

I'm not picking on you. I'm just surprised that everyone thinks that their vision of the GSD is the right one. Either it's a man stopper, or a cuddle bug, but never both. What ever happened to that famous versatility? That's what I love so much about GSDs. Yup, TD by day, defender by night, lol. Mr. Do It All!
01-19-2014 01:45 PM
Sunflowers Blanketback, that's fine, if that is what you want.

I had a reply, but I did say I'm out, so I deleted it.
01-19-2014 01:33 PM
Blanketback I think it's impossible to say what is or isn't desirable, because everyone's living their own situation. Sunflowers, you might not like your dog barking at the tourists, since that house is a nice rental. But if it was a decrepit crack house, then your needs would change. I don't mind if my dog barks at the neighbors, but he's been taught "quiet" so it's fine. I don't want him to stop barking altogether. In my circumstances, that's what I want.
01-19-2014 01:13 PM
carmspack I agree Sunflowers -- first test in French ring is test of impartiality -- dog off lead , surrounded , must remain neutral in spite of "social" pressure - judged looking him over when you report for trial , shaking your hand etc.
01-19-2014 01:09 PM
Sunflowers You know, I have a Czech line GSD with high suspicion.

It is something I work with every day.

I am not thrilled that his first instinct is to hackle up and bark at the tourist family arriving at the vacation home next door, with their kids and luggage.

The instant he looks, I correct and tell him to leave it. Now, most of the time, he does. I am proud that I got him to this point, instead of barking at everyone he sees.

If I had to do it again, I would get a dog with more stability, who only barks at someone who he identifies as a legitimate threat.

So threads such as these where people are glorifying what I see as an undesirable trait, well, they do irritate me.

I do not respect an owner of a GSD who thumps his chest and puffs up like a peacock because he can't be approached when he is with his dog.
This, to me, is not what a good German Shepherd is supposed to be. Not even close.
And taking an easily aroused puppy to be snarled at and barked at by an aggressive dog behind a portal is just plain ridiculous "socialization."

And now I will bow out of this thread.
01-19-2014 01:08 PM
carmspack okay , the dogs that I saw on the youtubes , even of Bero which introduced this thread , was a dog that fit into the strong arousal , stimulated by everything in the environment. He , and later the younger dog in another youtube are dominated by the arousal , can't self calm after the initial excitement , nor be calmed by the owner or who ever is handling them. They appear out of control -- which they are . The lower threshold for excitability will keep them in that state .
01-19-2014 01:00 PM
carmspack welcome John C . your introduction gives me a good idea for another thread.
Just one comment on the serious as a heart attack dog , as this can be a definition of two entirely different dogs .
Here is my best attempt -- there is a type of dog that can be very strong -- but be UNBALANCED -- which means he is easily stimulated or aroused , has easy excitability . They come out fast and quick . They are have strong arousal coupled with POOR inhibition . I think these dogs are the oooed and awwwed over dogs in sport competition, appreciated for the physical speed and the speed in which they are able to go to bite . They are so impressed (the dogs) by stimulation in the environment they look like they are looking for a fight.
Thresholds are low -- controllability is jeopardized , there is a lack of good judgment on part of the dog . There are a lack of levels to the response , everything is "missiles launched" . Capping problems .
Not balanced . Select group of potential owners . I would guess that a fair number of dogs in this group are sacrificed to poor management , poor training --- not understanding the dog .

What I call a balanced dog , the kind that I like , the type that can be workaday, on and off , on the sport field and in the home , is one who also has strong arousal -- aware of the environment and situations, but also is balanced with equally strong inhibition which causes the dog to , be at the ready , able to deal with the problem , but to think it out first . Judgement . No mistakes in wrongful bites . I think that "genetic obedience" dogs fit into this category . You can do good work with them because they are calmer , less hectic , more thoughtful . This is the dog that I would put into service.
01-19-2014 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by Blanketback View Post
That's not what I saw at all. I saw 2 dogs that were barking in a non-threatening manner. The one on left seemed fine, but the one on the right was practically yipping, jumping and playful. They weren't snarling, they weren't showing any kind of threatening gestures at all. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I saw.

The one on the left is how I want (expect) my GSD to react when someone comes to my gate. Of course, my gate is set way back against my house, enclosing my back yard. Nobody ever needs to get back there, but they'd definitely be considered uninvited once they've passed the pavers that lead to my front door. To me, this is one of the bonuses of having a GSD.
OK, cool.
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