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Thread: Training with a tennis ball as reward? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-13-2013 09:46 AM
Jax08
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
I agree Nancy. I wrote up a long counter conditioning post and deleted it.

I think you need some professional help with this dog Sarah.

David Winners
Yes!!! and Yes!!!! A professional trainer can give you more valuable input in 5 minutes than anyone on the web that's never seen the dog.

As far as a reward, you do not want a reward you throw that sends the dog away from you. You either want food or something to tug. You may have to build the value for the food and reward. A trainer can help you with that as well.
12-13-2013 09:40 AM
andreaB Just want to comment on the reactive/aggressive dog class. In classes i have been they wont let dogs just run around off leash and only introduce other dog in very save way for all involve. Ask about that class it may be good for you.
12-13-2013 01:11 AM
Sarah~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packen View Post
Try this for building engagement. Walk around show toy to dog and as he comes to get it push him away and walk away making him follow you. Then release and reward. Repeat for a month 2-3 times a day. Do not let him focus on anything other than you. If he does you walk away, when he engages with you, release/reward. Stretch the engagement period from 2-3 seconds to 2-3 minutes in 20-30 sessions, then go back to rewarding at 5 seconds of engagement. Next go for 5 minutes and give a command like "sit", release/reward. Now you set the routine where you tease him tease him walk away, push him off, walk away, tease him then "sit" release/reward. Use this routine for 20-30 sessions.

Add distractions, your friends clap and make noise, dog runs towards them they freeze. Dog gets nothing, he finally looks at you, you run away exciting voice, he comes towards you, you release/reward. And so forth, till he understands, you are his universe.
Thank you, that's very helpful in getting me started on the basics! Seems very simple, we sort of play games like that anyway and he loves it
12-12-2013 09:24 PM
Packen Try this for building engagement. Walk around show toy to dog and as he comes to get it push him away and walk away making him follow you. Then release and reward. Repeat for a month 2-3 times a day. Do not let him focus on anything other than you. If he does you walk away, when he engages with you, release/reward. Stretch the engagement period from 2-3 seconds to 2-3 minutes in 20-30 sessions, then go back to rewarding at 5 seconds of engagement. Next go for 5 minutes and give a command like "sit", release/reward. Now you set the routine where you tease him tease him walk away, push him off, walk away, tease him then "sit" release/reward. Use this routine for 20-30 sessions.

Add distractions, your friends clap and make noise, dog runs towards them they freeze. Dog gets nothing, he finally looks at you, you run away exciting voice, he comes towards you, you release/reward. And so forth, till he understands, you are his universe.
12-12-2013 09:15 PM
Packen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah~ View Post
Someone told me today you can train with a favorite toy as a reward instead of a treat. Eko is getting increasingly DA and I've been walking him with a muzzle lately, kind of wondering how to take it from here. I use a prong collar on walks so he doesn't drag me towards other dogs, also.

I've mentioned before he is not food motivated, at all, he spits out any kind of treats I give him and the second he sees a dog he won't take it anyway. The prong lets me have barely enough control over him to hold him in place and stay on my feet, and I have mixed feelings about an e collar. I would really like to use a reward kind of training to get him to ignore other dogs, like the treat training where we stay far away and I use treats to distract him and work our way closer over time.

So would a ball work for this? If so, how would I do it? Throw it? Kind of tease him with it so he stays focused on me? What command would I need to use for this, if any?
You are on the right track with using a toy for reward, key is to know when to reward and when not to as it builds more drive towards it. In your situation I would focus on 2 things,

1. Increase your value exponentially to the dog so he engages in any distraction and stays engaged (you reward after longer periods of 100% engagement)
2. Now use obedience to control
12-12-2013 08:47 PM
gsdsar Training with a toy is great. My bigges concern would be using an object that INCREASES excitement in a situation in which the dog is overly stimulated. Could end up a recipe for disaster. You lose a bit of control once the reward is given. Even a ball on a string. You don't give it and then get it back in an instant. There will be moments, in the beginning minutes, where training stops so you can get the ball back. Those moments are crucial.

If it's used to condition a response first, away from distractions, then introduced with distractions at a huge distance, maybe.


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12-12-2013 08:38 PM
Sarah~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deno View Post
If your dog has a good prey drive, nothing can compare with a tennis ball for a reward. I have always started out with high value treats to teach the basics of "whatever" with a game of fetch at the end of each training session.

After a little while all of my dogs would spit the treats out with the anticipation of playing ball. Most of my lessons last around 15 minutes or so with some going to a half hour or so, you have to be able to read your dog to tell when enough is enough. With the half hour lessons I break it up with a game of fetch in the middle. I see so many people here and at other sites who have the same problem you have with your dog heeling. Teaching a dog to heel and to heel off the lead is one of the easiest things in the world to do if done properly from the get go. And yes it does involve a prong collar, the Lew Burke method is the best and shortest route I know of, success with this method is humane and the fast results will amaze you. Any qualms you have about the ecollar are unfounded, it is one of the most amazing tools in your training arsenal if used with common sense. With this tool you can tweak all known task to perfection and stop any unwanted behavior.
I just don't think I'll use the e collar right and I'll end up hurting him. I don't think it's bad I just don't trust myself to do it right.
12-12-2013 08:35 PM
Deno If your dog has a good prey drive, nothing can compare with a tennis ball for a reward. I have always started out with high value treats to teach the basics of "whatever" with a game of fetch at the end of each training session.

After a little while all of my dogs would spit the treats out with the anticipation of playing ball. Most of my lessons last around 15 minutes or so with some going to a half hour or so, you have to be able to read your dog to tell when enough is enough. With the half hour lessons I break it up with a game of fetch in the middle. I see so many people here and at other sites who have the same problem you have with your dog heeling. Teaching a dog to heel and to heel off the lead is one of the easiest things in the world to do if done properly from the get go. And yes it does involve a prong collar, the Lew Burke method is the best and shortest route I know of, success with this method is humane and the fast results will amaze you. Any qualms you have about the ecollar are unfounded, it is one of the most amazing tools in your training arsenal if used with common sense. With this tool you can tweak all known task to perfection and stop any unwanted behavior.
12-12-2013 07:32 PM
Sarah~
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLab View Post
Check the Tyler Muto vids to see how to use leash pressure to control your dog when on walks.
Tyler Muto - YouTube

It would be my guess that the dog won't walk well for you even in an enclosed car park or what ever with no distractions. I see male dogs being walked and they smell everything and pee where they want. When you want to control a dog on leash you start to stop them sniffing randomly and only let them pee when you stop and allow them.

You change the routine of the dog getting excited when you pick up the leash or your coat. Basically good dog behavior starts at home and then you try to carry the good behavior as you go. If the dog is pulling you out the drive way, you are in for a dragging match which the dog excells at and you get frustrated and demoralized with.


Ball drive/Prey drive. If a dog wants to get a ball so much you can then get him focused on that rather than on a distraction. You need to develop up this drive over time if you want it to be powerful enough to refocus a dog from an other dog or cat. It is possible. But you should be aiming for obedience first in return for the ball play and build this up and then try working with distractions.
He will walk on the leash at my side and not pull if it's just us on the street, if there are people he will pull and if there is a dog or a cat he will pull. He still on occasion will try to pull when a car goes by, but I just have to correct him a little bit and he will stop.

Our humane society has a class for reactive/aggressive dogs, a friend told me about it I'm not sure it's a good idea because he would have to be muzzled because other dogs are there, he would still try to attack them and I'm afraid they would attack him back and he wouldn't be able to defend himself. Is that an option or does it need to be one on one training?

I like the ball on a string I was linked to, that looks like something he would really like!

That also makes sense what someone said about he would be worried someone was after his ball, he is also very aggressive around toys and bones, used to be aggressive around food and water.

I do know a trainer who I have had come to my house before, if you guys think the humane society class is a bad idea I will give him a call, and I am ordering one of those balls on a string I think that would really help me out as far as a reward for training.
12-12-2013 03:47 PM
Harry and Lola If he is not food orientated then rewarding with treats won't work for you. Anything can be used as a reward, you need to find his 'prized possession' whether it be a kong, or ball or squeaky toy. I know people that train using a rubber ball on the end of a robe as the reward - the dogs responds really well.

With tennis balls, there is evidence that the glue and/or material (can't remember which now) can contribute towards breaking off the tips of their canine teeth, so maybe a firm rubber ball might be better.
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