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Thread: What type of correction to use? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-09-2013 10:40 PM
David Winners I wouldn't assume anything as far as known commands and if they were trained under distraction. He's probably confused as to what you expect from him. It doesn't take long to go through marker training steps, especially if the dog has a clue. I also change the dogs name and usually train in a different language because the previous owners probably polluted commands and retraining is easier than repairing.

I like to make it very clear to the dog that interacting with me means lots of good stuff. I'm the most fun thing on the planet. This back to zero also teaches the dog how I train behaviors, so my basic repertoire of household commands and behaviors are easier to teach.

Engagement with the dog is critical for me, and you don't get that automatically. When training recall, off leash drops, CC/DS training for DA, HA, AA or fear, I can't get anywhere without engagement. The basic OB fundamentals help me build the necessary engagement with the dog.

This time also allows me to evaluate the dog, and for him to evaluate me, as it's adjusting to the new environment. I create schedules to head off house breaking issues. I play crate games. I show him where to crap in the yard. I get to shape his first impressions of his new environment and make the necessary corrections or offer rewards the first time he makes decisions.

IMO, it's a month well spent.

David Winners
12-09-2013 10:26 PM
Cassidy's Mom Everything everyone else already said. But also, I wondered if you have a command for him to lay down - most people use "down", but I've heard of people using "lay" instead. If you do have a "down" command, I'd consider something else for stopping him from mounting your other dog or jumping, because "get down" could be confusing if it means something different than "down".

I for those things I use "off", which works for getting off the furniture, getting off the other dog, getting off me or someone else if they jump, etc. Also, rather than correcting him for doing something you don't want him to do, it's sometimes better to think of what you'd like him to do instead, and then train (and reward) that instead. A polite sit instead of jumping on guests is a good example, because he can't be sitting and jumping at the same time, so these are incompatible behaviors.

I'm not opposed to corrections, but there are a lot of things my dogs could be doing that I don't want them to do, and correcting them for any/all of those things doesn't teach them what I DO want them to be doing. If I manage their environment to minimize their opportunities to do "bad" things and maximize their opportunities to succeed, wherein I can reward them for being "good", they learn much faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horsdancr2000 View Post
Usually a verbal command will work(if he is trying to jump up or snooping in the trash), however, sometimes his attention will be focused elsewhere. For example, he will try to mount my dog and if a verbal "get down" doesn't work, I pat his rump to get his attention and that will usually do it.
12-09-2013 09:54 PM
Baillif
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer11 View Post
hahahah i like your analogies. but i do have to disagree just a little. to me at the end of the day a correction is the ultimate proofing. getting a speeding ticket just isnt a "hard" enough correction. if you sped and got caught, you immediately go to jail. suddenly that changes the whole ball game.

it really has to do with distractions. there will be a time when 20 dollars popping up isnt bigger than the reward of speeding to like a date you're late to. if the date is really hot then i'd just speed and forget the 20 dollars. but if i know that if i speed and got caught i'd have to go to jail then i'd would rather be late then speed. i promise there will be times when a distraction will be worth more than a treat to the dog. so to me you teach them things buy paying them the money so they know that if they listen then they will get "paid" but they also need to realize that if you dont listen then you will go to jail
That isn't disagreeing I'm right there with you.
12-09-2013 09:50 PM
horsdancr2000 Thanks all!! I appreciate all the input For now I have been implementing NILIF with basic commands like sit, stay(very briefly),down and come. Initially I thought he didn't know anything but now I think he did know these things but was just rusty on them. I tell him to sit before he goes out or comes in, have him sit/stay before he gets fed and when he comes up to me in the chair I tell him to sit(he used to jump up on me in the chair) and then I love on him. Today he actually came up to the chair and sat down! In addition to NILIF I have "official" 5-10 minute training times per day where he gets lots of pets and treats. I have noticed that when he is in one of his selective listening modes he will either avoid eye contact or turn away. Im trying to make it as fun/positive as possible.
12-09-2013 09:19 PM
boomer11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baillif View Post
Nothing wrong with teaching the no command, but you want to make sure you take a positive tilt to teaching a behavior too. Effective behavior modification is always reward based. I'll give you an example of this.

We are people. We have the smartest brains on the planet we can understand tough concepts. When people speed and get caught they get pulled over and they get a ticket and pay a fine. This is a punishment to correct the behavior, there is even a lasting punishment in the form of rise in insurance costs and that kind of thing that sticks around. For a while those people won't speed, but a few days weeks or months later they are generally right back to speeding again, or they just get better at knowing where the speed traps are. Corrections don't stop the behavior they just make you better at avoiding getting caught.

On the flip side if you were getting occasional 10 to 20 dollar bills popping out of your dash for maintaining the speed limit with regularity would you do it? I'm betting you would. Dog's are the same way. Whatever you do when it comes to behavior modification or obedience training the big strides will come from the positive side of things. Not saying that corrections aren't useful and can't or shouldn't be incorporated into training, but always work things from the motivational side first.
hahahah i like your analogies. but i do have to disagree just a little. to me at the end of the day a correction is the ultimate proofing. getting a speeding ticket just isnt a "hard" enough correction. if you sped and got caught, you immediately go to jail. suddenly that changes the whole ball game.

it really has to do with distractions. there will be a time when 20 dollars popping up isnt bigger than the reward of speeding to like a date you're late to. if the date is really hot then i'd just speed and forget the 20 dollars. but if i know that if i speed and got caught i'd have to go to jail then i'd would rather be late then speed. i promise there will be times when a distraction will be worth more than a treat to the dog. so to me you teach them things buy paying them the money so they know that if they listen then they will get "paid" but they also need to realize that if you dont listen then you will go to jail
12-09-2013 09:06 PM
Baillif Nothing wrong with teaching the no command, but you want to make sure you take a positive tilt to teaching a behavior too. Effective behavior modification is always reward based. I'll give you an example of this.

We are people. We have the smartest brains on the planet we can understand tough concepts. When people speed and get caught they get pulled over and they get a ticket and pay a fine. This is a punishment to correct the behavior, there is even a lasting punishment in the form of rise in insurance costs and that kind of thing that sticks around. For a while those people won't speed, but a few days weeks or months later they are generally right back to speeding again, or they just get better at knowing where the speed traps are. Corrections don't stop the behavior they just make you better at avoiding getting caught.

On the flip side if you were getting occasional 10 to 20 dollar bills popping out of your dash for maintaining the speed limit with regularity would you do it? I'm betting you would. Dog's are the same way. Whatever you do when it comes to behavior modification or obedience training the big strides will come from the positive side of things. Not saying that corrections aren't useful and can't or shouldn't be incorporated into training, but always work things from the motivational side first.
12-09-2013 08:59 PM
Deno Hey Amy, sounds to me like you need him to respect the no command. The no command in the early stages should be delivered in the form of a verbal brick with body language to match. If this needs a correction to be reinforced,nothing works like an e-collar due to the ease along with the speed/timing of the delivery of said correction. What ever the bad behavior, if he doesn't stop after a stern no, give him a little zap or more if required. Using this method you are killing two birds with one stone so to say. Not only will he learn to stop the unwanted behavior instantly, he will understand no for anything has bad consequences if ignored. I know there will be chicken little's for this method, but the truth is if your dog is anything like my Big Bad Male Dex you will be amazed with the results and there will be very few corrections needed. No is one thing, training your dog is another. I think the late great dog man Lew Burke had it right when he said you need a loving bond established before the real training starts. Good Luck.

Deno
12-09-2013 02:03 PM
Baillif Yeah the management helps. Picture him like a big 6 year old puppy. He has to learn your house rules.
12-09-2013 02:02 PM
Blanketback Alot of things are more easily taken care of by just avoiding the situation too. Like the garbage - get a good can with a lid and that's not a problem anymore. Leashing him so he can't mount your other dog would be something else to do. Good luck
12-09-2013 01:56 PM
Baillif Yeah you are way early in the game. You have to treat that dog like he doesn't know anything.
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