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Thread: One Year Old Male GSD Scaring All the People Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-10-2013 02:37 PM
MadLab
Quote:
I would randomly shout high five and high five each other and he would get excited and want to play too.
My 2 cents is aim for calmness in the dog around people if you want to have control over him. Be a source of calmness and stability and he'll be much easier to handle.

Check out the Tyler Muto vids as that is how to ensure you have control over your dog when out in public and how to stop him lunging and barking at dogs and people.

Quote:
I try to play with him awhile before taking him outside for walks. I guess I'll try to tire him out a bit more.
Basically if it is a really energetic dog he;ll take all the exercise and still be excitable and uncontrollable. You want to learn how to instill calmness in the dog if you want it to be obedient and under your control.
12-10-2013 01:19 PM
missDevichi Oh man this forum confused me with everything in reverse. + A+

@Baillif Umm, there's only been two times I would think of. The first would be the dog that was in the same kennel as him and the second wasn't really a good meet up. He ran out of the yard and was running down the street when he heard the neighbor's dogs and he ran towards them. In the end he got a scratch on his nose. Other than that, those are the only times where he made contact with another dog.

@VTGirlT: Usually before he barks his ears are up, wagging tail that is usually the same height as his body, staring at the person, body up, hackles are not raised, his face is not wrinkled, mouth closed. When he barks he would just wrinkle up his nose. BARK. @A @;; What would that be considered as?;;

I try to play with him awhile before taking him outside for walks. I guess I'll try to tire him out a bit more.

@MadLab: The talking thing was more to mimic me when I am talking to him, overly happy and kinda high, ha. I figured if he saw us doing it together, he'd think we were friends. When he isn't doing anything, my mother and I would randomly shout high five and high five each other and he would get excited and want to pay too.

I'll try and remember the tips. My friend just can't help making eye contact, ha;

---

Oop, I'm late for class.
12-10-2013 06:03 AM
debbiebrown i agre not to force a dog into social situations. it takes a long time to work through this and alot of patience. i would stick with a private trainer you will get the most benefit out of that. a professional trainer can see what you might be doing and what the dog is doing and correct it. i would have the trainer set you up in several controlled situations for you to practice with. the more confident you get the more confident your dog will get. this can be worked through as long as you are willing to be completely dedicated to it.
12-09-2013 07:29 AM
Baillif I'd say the biggest mistakes people make in socialization are.

1. Just hoping exposure to the things that the dog finds uncomfortable will be enough.

You have to actively take steps to get the dog to associate triggers with positive things. Either by playing with them or feeding them in gradually closer proximity to the trigger as they become desensitized to it over time. If you aren't taking steps to actively make it a positive experience the best case scenario is the dog is indifferent, worst case scenario the dog finds something he really doesn't like about a stranger and wants to go nail him.

2. Trying to "show" the dog that a trigger is not a threat by pulling them into it closely.

There is an important caveat here. If the object is inanimate like a post or a bag or stuffed animal dog you can do this by sitting on the object or getting on top of it. The dog will very quickly see you have things under control and come to investigate (or in some cases help you "dog pile" it) Unless you are in the habit of sitting on strange dogs or people I wouldn't advise you try it there. Especially if you have a dog that wants to "pile on" You sit on someone and next thing you know the dog is like YEAH LETS KILL EM! HOLD EM DOWN I'LL BITE THE SAFE END!. When it comes to people, dogs and other living objects you have to work your way in slowly from the distance the dog first begins to show any kind of fear or aggression and then reward closer and closer to the trigger over time at the dogs pace. The dog determines the pace in this case not the handler.

3. Luring a dog in past his threshold and then either not rewarding fast enough or keeping him there too long.

Lets say I am luring my dog and he is afraid of a person and starts showing issues at about 50 feet. If I have good attention from him and he really wants those treats he might follow me in below his threshold to say 30 feet as long as the rewards are coming fast, but if I keep him there too long, the trigger makes a sudden move, or I stop feeding and his attention wanders to the trigger he will all of a sudden see he is super close and bolt or if he is the choose fight kind of guy start his aggression routine. It is kind of like telling someone who is afraid of heights to not look down, and then all of a sudden they look down and freak.

A lot of us use some sort of "pressure gradient" for socialization situations. If the problem is strange people or cars I find that grocery store parking lots are great places to go. If you start at the back of a parking lot especially one with a wooded area at the end of it you have a fairly "safe" area to retreat the dog back to when they get uncomfortable and then you have a super potentially stressful environment the closer to the store you get.
12-09-2013 07:07 AM
MadLab
Quote:
Is there a safe way I can help him socialize with other people and dogs?
Tyler Muto - YouTube
Learn to control the dog on leash and you will be able to control the dog when meeting people and other dogs. Take you time.

I think that people make mistakes trying to 'socialize' an animal. So don't try too hard. It is more important for you to be focused on the dog and instruct him to act as you like.


Quote:
My friend didn't believe me that he could actually sit in the car and I had to make sure he wouldn't paw at the walking collar thingie. Every once in awhile we did do the "THIS IS MARLY!(my friend) HE IS FRIEND!" and my friend would be "HI ROCKET (my dog), I AM YOUR FRIEND." My dog only barked in the beginning anyway.
I would advice not to talk or reason with a dog as it can't understand you. Your friend talking to the dog can be seen as a threat by the dog. It also shows the dog he knows nothing about dog behavior. Dogs do understand body language.

Simple rule of no touch, no talk and no eye contact is worth remembering for people who are not well acquainted with the dog. People who are not used to dogs think they don't fear it but can still act in inappropriately because in an animal sense they still show fear to the dog. They act uncomfortably and like a big dog is looking at them.
Maybe your friend is acting like this and so the dog will not trust him even though he gives treats or whatever. I find it is better to develop trust first and use treats later.

I believe you develop trust by showing the dog you are not a treat to it or it's owner. You show it you are confident by standing strong with your chin up and slightly facing away from the dog, so the dog can totally get a sense of who you are in animal terms. It can sniff and you don't budge or act nervous.

What most people will do is look into the dogs eyes as it approaches and say 'hey boy' and try to rub it's head.

Also if I am going to rub a dog I will always hold my hand below it's mouth and allow the dog get closer to me while sniffing and then I'll rub it's chin or neck. I will never rub the head first unless it's my own dogs.

Quote:
Though there was this one time I walked into a room and there was this big fellow (that apparently owns 6 dogs at that moment) that let my dog sniff him. He never barked or lunged at him.
I would say this is because the guy has dogs and knows how to act around them. He probably has respect for the dog and the dog knows this and respects him back. It takes time to develop this understanding of dogs. I would think a lot of people don't possess this intuition around dogs until they have experience with dogs. But good body language and a bit of knowledge can mask a lack of experience. As soon as a person feels the dogs accepting of the way they act, they will get confidence and then all dog encounters become easier.
12-08-2013 09:32 PM
VTGirlT Well if i compare this to my dog, its sounds a lot like her in some ways..
So it could be fearfulness/ being unsure of the outcome of the people/dogs.
Some dogs will take treats and than bark again. It's happened to me before, kennel aggressive dogs will take treats from me and stop barking during that moment, and begin again after the treats are gone-it defiantly wasn't because they wanted another treat.
If you watch his body language and see if he is doing any calming signals..









And those are most extreme and exaggerated body languages.. But read your dogs energy and his body language when it see's a person or dog.

Find if your dog is doing calming signals and give calming signals to your dog such as yawning, turning to the side of the "Scary thing", looking away, sighing, walking away etc.

If your dog is fearful aggressive, than its best to go slow, and at their pace for counter conditioning.
For the fear aggression i REALLY recommend this booklet by Patricia McConnel, it has really helped me with my fearful aggressive dog to strangers!! (even more than my private trainer in some ways honestly!)
The Cautious Canine-How to Help Dogs Conquer Their Fears: Patricia B. McConnell: 9781891767005: Amazon.com: Books The Cautious Canine-How to Help Dogs Conquer Their Fears: Patricia B. McConnell: 9781891767005: Amazon.com: Books

This book is really good for new dog owners,
The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs: Patricia B. McConnell: 9780345446787: Amazon.com: Books The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs: Patricia B. McConnell: 9780345446787: Amazon.com: Books

And this last book is also really good for any dog owner:
How to be the Leader of the Pack...And have Your Dog Love You For It.: Patricia B. McConnell Ph.D.: 9781891767029: Amazon.com: Books How to be the Leader of the Pack...And have Your Dog Love You For It.: Patricia B. McConnell Ph.D.: 9781891767029: Amazon.com: Books

You have to protect your dog from circumstances where they will be so scared where they will hurt someone, also protecting other people. If you have to buy a muzzle, than do so. But start working now and go at the pace of your dog. When you rush your dog, you will be going over his threshold and in return will put you back.

Be sure to also give your dog lots of exercise and mental stimulation. I know i've read and seen myself with Zelda, that if they do not have that exercise they have more pent up energy they can put to their fear and aggression. When I get Zelda from her crate after work, after she has been in there for hours. She is more reactive to new people than after a long walk. Also mental stimulation helps build up your relationship with your dog.

This book i recently purchased and have only used a few things in it so far: but it looks like there are a lot of fun ideas to do!
Brain Games for Dogs: Fun Ways to Build a Strong Bond with Your Dog and Provide It with Vital Mental Stimulation
Brain Games for Dogs: Fun Ways to Build a Strong Bond with Your Dog and Provide It with Vital Mental Stimulation: Claire Arrowsmith: 9781554074907: Amazon.com: Books Brain Games for Dogs: Fun Ways to Build a Strong Bond with Your Dog and Provide It with Vital Mental Stimulation: Claire Arrowsmith: 9781554074907: Amazon.com: Books

A lot of it is about management and takes time to get to know your dog, its threshold, and body language. But there are a lot of great resources out there.
12-08-2013 08:49 PM
Baillif Sounds like there is a socialization issue with people then. Has he actually ever met a strange dog and made contact? If so how did he act?
12-08-2013 08:41 PM
missDevichi He is already on the NIFL thing. He sits and waits until I get the food, waits for me to say okay to eat. Usually sit, down, up, shake for snacks, toys, and being let into the garage. At least with me, my mother doesn't seem to understand (or doesn't want to). My dog has started to start guessing when commands are given and she just gives him a treat with he's sitting or down whether if that was the command or not. But she stopped visiting him now because he pissed her off. Ho hum.

Anyway with the car thing, we talked facing my dog. My friend didn't believe me that he could actually sit in the car and I had to make sure he wouldn't paw at the walking collar thingie. Every once in awhile we did do the "THIS IS MARLY!(my friend) HE IS FRIEND!" and my friend would be "HI ROCKET (my dog), I AM YOUR FRIEND." My dog only barked in the beginning anyway.

The story was more of a "I tried to introduce him to someone" kind of thing. What about when he is actually around others? There hasn't actually been many times where he didn't bark/lunge at people/dogs. He was in front of a mirror once and he barked at himself and then tried to bite the reflection. I've tried ignoring the other person and just keep walking, greeting the other person, walking the other direction but if the person is close enough, my dog will still try to bark/lunge at the other person. Treats don't get his attention, I could be sticking the treat up his nose and he wouldn't even notice it.

If it was a dog (or rabbit), as long as he sees 'em, he will flip out. When I try to change directions he would get into his hind legs and kind of whimper? and try to get the leading collar off.
12-08-2013 04:47 PM
Baillif It is really hard to tell based on how that was described. Generally if a dog is taking food he isn't very bothered by the person near him. The fight/flight reflex is generally not synonymous with eating those states of mind are just not compatible with each other. The fact he took a command from your friend pretty much means he wasn't in that state of mind at that point. A fight or flight type dog unless he was very very very very well trained wouldn't just do a command while being reactive. He might just be pushy in that case or the interaction might have changed at some point during the introduction. The dog might just be barking out of habit or frustration. For some dogs barking is one of those things that is just self reinforcing and he might not even know why he is doing it. It is just what he started doing and became what he always did and nobody really ever trained him to stop so he just kept doing it.
12-08-2013 04:39 PM
Mary Beth Yes, based on what you described - I think he just wanted more treats. He was getting treats and attention and all was fine - then you put him in the car, and he was being ignored while you talked to your friend, so he acted up. When his first barking was ignored - he increased the barking and then the teeth baring - all to get treats and attention. I also don't think he is doing this out of protecting you - he is doing it to get all the attention. You may want to try a little experiment - when next you see someone and want to talk - have him sit by your side but when you talk to the other person, insert the dog's name every now and then -you may be surprised he will be listening. I do suggest that you consider a different trainer - one who has experience with gsds and can help you to train your gsd to be a well behaved dog. I also suggest you look up threads on the NILF (Nothing in Life is Free) training and start your dog on the program.
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