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Thread: E-collar to me is CLEARLY being used WRONG here! Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-10-2013 04:50 PM
Sookie Sookie, my 1 year old (super high drive, but super focused with all the energy if that makes sense?) used to act just as stimulated and focused on my cats as the dog in the video. It took over four months of multiple baby gates, Sookie on the leash in the house, treat/reward whenever she didn't lunge or "death stare", and constant supervision and hard work. But now she is off-leash around all 4 cats with no problems. I only share this because after a couple months without much visible progress I was ready to try anything including an e-collar but the more I thought about it (and I know this is a personal decision for everyone so I'm not being judgmental just explaining) the more I decided, hey - this dog is smart as ****, and she does all kinds of cool scentwork and agility and other obediance without it, so if I can't work this out without an e-collar then it's obviously me. So, anyway, kept at it, and lo and behold, the dog who I thought was going to eat my cats now just heaves a HUGE sigh when she sees Oilver-the-tabby drinking from her water bowl. Biggest victory in my life, and I swear working with her so intensely to get here has made our bond pretty special.
12-09-2013 09:28 PM
LouCastle A couple of people have mentioned my way of dealing with this issue. Here's a link to the process. Game Chasing (Crittering)
12-08-2013 12:47 PM
jocoyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
There is so much stress, even after you have control.

Nancy, did you notice a difference in the dog after the cat was rehomed?

David Winners
Cyra ALWAYS wanted to hunt and kill small game. She needed occasional sessions with the ecollar to reminder her but the technique used left her clear in the head as it was very low stim at the time she was still thinking about starting the chase. But you could always see the initial pause then her cutting it off. The last years when she was not working I controlled her environment more than her since the cats were not with us and she made a habit of catching birds in low flight and we did not have the chipmunk problem we now have though I never saw her catch one of them or consume one.

I saw that same pause momentarily with Beau who wanted to take chase the cat, but corrected it the moment he stared at the cat. He is an entirely different dog. I think it was a triggering of prey drive that was easy to check and redirect.
12-08-2013 09:26 AM
Sarah~
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
This is going to be a huge training challenge even for a seasoned trainer. It would be walking a fine line reading the dog and applying the right motivation at the right time.

I would either get somebody really experienced to guide you, make a safe zone to confine the cat or rehome the cat. JMHO

David Winners
That's why I was just putting him away when he came in to eat, he us an indoor/outdoor cat so he is only in a little bit at a time a few times a day. But it's wintertime and he wants to be in almost all day now. I'm thinking of putting up some gates so he has his place to relax, although he IS a cat, and he will go where he darn well pleases not much I can do to stop him, lol. He does prefer being up and out of the way though so I think that would work well.
12-08-2013 08:49 AM
David Winners There is so much stress, even after you have control.

Nancy, did you notice a difference in the dog after the cat was rehomed?

David Winners
12-08-2013 08:45 AM
jocoyn I would agree with David. With Cyra, I was able to get obedience around our cats but never did I fully trust her. I juggled cats and dogs until my daughter took the cats (they were my daughter's in the first place but she was in college and moving around so I kept them for her, and Cyra had grown up with them but all our efforts, short of the Lou Castle method, did not work. Lou's method gave me control but I always knew she wanted to go for them)

Beau is slowly doing well with integrating new cats but the difference is he just wants to play and I see no desire to attack. That said, it is an easy situation to get out of hand so he is learning ground rules in the house with the cats and it may take me a month or more before I will trust him around them.

The difference is very observable.
12-08-2013 08:28 AM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah~ View Post
Eko is not food motivated at ALL. He spits out treats and he has been to the vet a couple of times for not eating, he is completely healthy just isn't crazy about food. He eats to live that is about it. He also chases my cat, I have to hold on to him or stand in front of him when my cat jumps up on the kitchen table (only safe place inside for him to eat) or Eko will grab him in mid jump and throw him back down to the ground and corner him. Eko will not take food of any kind when the cat is inside, I've even tried people food, nothing.

He is sensitive to praise, even when he is pretty worked up if I say NO he will stop in his tracks long enough for me to grab him. He gets very excited when he is praised so I try doing that or giving him a toy, that's kind of worked so far. Basically he will stop but barely, he still wiggles and stands up or jumps forward and backward to out of excitement, I think.

I hate using the prong on him anymore, he is very dramatic and even the slightest discomfort makes him yelp like I'm killing him. Right now I am using a martingale and just either putting him away or putting him on leash when the cat is inside. Not very convenient but it's keeping them both safe, the last fight they had made my kitchen look like a murder scene.
This is going to be a huge training challenge even for a seasoned trainer. It would be walking a fine line reading the dog and applying the right motivation at the right time.

I would either get somebody really experienced to guide you, make a safe zone to confine the cat or rehome the cat. JMHO

David Winners
12-08-2013 06:41 AM
Sarah~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baillif View Post
There are maybe dogs out there where positive only even with deprivation wouldn't be easily effective. Really really unmotivated for food dogs are out there. IMO these dogs would be dead in the wild, but you could say that for lots of domesticated animals out there so that isn't anything special.

I don't know how much of an extreme things could be taken to and frankly I don't want to know to see if you could eventually get food deprivation to work on the dog. I mean realistically at some point the dog would fall over from exhaustion and just go for the easy food but if you got to that point you might as well have shocked the **** out of them.

In any case I wouldn't think those dogs are normal although I have no doubt they probably exist. That's why when it comes to dog training there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Eko is not food motivated at ALL. He spits out treats and he has been to the vet a couple of times for not eating, he is completely healthy just isn't crazy about food. He eats to live that is about it. He also chases my cat, I have to hold on to him or stand in front of him when my cat jumps up on the kitchen table (only safe place inside for him to eat) or Eko will grab him in mid jump and throw him back down to the ground and corner him. Eko will not take food of any kind when the cat is inside, I've even tried people food, nothing.

He is sensitive to praise, even when he is pretty worked up if I say NO he will stop in his tracks long enough for me to grab him. He gets very excited when he is praised so I try doing that or giving him a toy, that's kind of worked so far. Basically he will stop but barely, he still wiggles and stands up or jumps forward and backward to out of excitement, I think.

I hate using the prong on him anymore, he is very dramatic and even the slightest discomfort makes him yelp like I'm killing him. Right now I am using a martingale and just either putting him away or putting him on leash when the cat is inside. Not very convenient but it's keeping them both safe, the last fight they had made my kitchen look like a murder scene.
12-08-2013 05:37 AM
MadLab


Here is the episode so any one can watch the complete section with this dog Spike. Turned out Cesar did have some success in getting both animals to be in the same room and remaining relaxed.

People can draw their own conclusions on the episode anyways. Looks like a nice dog.
12-08-2013 05:15 AM
MadLab One way to make this easier to watch is turn the sound off.

The noise of this dog and cat is freaky anyways minus the e collar.

The echo in the room makes it worse.

The tension in the house has built up over time and it hard to deal with i would think in that environment.

I'd like to see the whole episode to see if he did get the animals to get along. I wouldn't think that method would work really as the cat is totally not relaxed and the dog is being triggered into prey drive to much by the cat. Way to much excitement there to have control over either animal.
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