|10-25-2013 11:01 AM|
|Liesje||I've used toys and treats for all my dogs' training classes starting with 12 week old puppy class. If it distracts another dog, I offer their handler a ball to use with their dog It is a bit more difficult to rapidly reward and/or play tug in a smaller space, so I do lots of marker training with food. I use toys more as a "jackpot", let the dog's drive build and cap, then release him into the toy to play tug for 10 seconds or so. I don't like using toys as lures but that's up to you, a lot of people do, I just find it harder to fade and I'd rather have the dog understand focus early on. My ball is usually in my left hand, which the dog can probably smell, but that's on the left side of his face so he's still required to focus forward or to his right on me, depending on what type of heeling we're doing. If we're training outside in a larger space, I prefer to drop the ball, heel the dog around, then release him to snatch up the ball and play tug.|
|10-25-2013 10:42 AM|
I also agree while a high ball drive is handy it not always conducive to training in a group obedience class setting. I used a tug toy in class to redirect if I saw Delgado getting bored or fidgety. I could pull it out and have a quiet game of tug without disturbing anyone and still listen to the teacher, also the tug sparked his interest and but not his drive as much as a ball would have.
In another setting I would absolutely use a ball, and a ball on a rope is the best of both worlds.
|10-25-2013 10:37 AM|
|llombardo||I ordered the ball on the rope a couple days ago. I don't want to amp him up, so I have some homework to do. That ball will be for training only.|
|10-25-2013 10:31 AM|
What onyx said...sometimes when that toy is out, the dog isn't thinking. I noticed this in my boy. He'll just go through the gamut of all the tricks he knows until I finally throw the ball. I moved to a tug toy because I prefer the game to be with me rather than a retrieve which takes the dog away from you and really out of position. Plus...you can't throw a ball in class.
What you need to do is train a marker word. So a "yes" or "good" which means that the dog is doing what you've asked it to do. Then you have a release word. When you say the marker word, the dog knows its doings something correctly. So the dog is in perfect heel position and you say the marker word...after the marker word, ALWAYS comes the reward. The dog should know it WILL get the reward, even if its delayed (could be a very long delay). So once you say the marker word. You can show the reward, throw the reward, whatever you want to do...but the dog should only go get it after its released with the release word. So what I do is, mark with a "yes," take out the tug toy, say "okay" and the dog is allowed to go for the toy and we tug for a few seconds.
|10-25-2013 09:55 AM|
I'd get a ball on string so you can either reward him through tugging and then outing him~ or tossing it(but in a class, tossing it is probably discouraged).
When teaching something with a high ball drive dog, sometimes that brings their drive level too high and they can't think, so using food is recommended to keep the dogs drive state in the thinking zone.
I would keep certain toys for training only.
Bridget Carlsen has some video clips on engagement and enthusiasm.
She is fairly local to you, worth going to a seminar if you can.
Michael Ellis's clips are good too. If you can go watch an IPO club train, most everyone uses balls in training, you can see how they reward, the timing, etc.
|10-25-2013 09:09 AM|
|llombardo||Can I use it in class? For example, he does well with heeling, but sometimes loses focus, can I use that ball to keep him focused on me? Since class is continuous I really don't have the time to give him the ball as a reward technically. He is a big boy, 92 pounds and I want to keep him where he is, so slowing down on treats is the start.|
|10-25-2013 08:55 AM|
Midnite sounds just like my boy Dex.
What worked for me was to play fetch after the entire workout.
Sometimes I would break it up and play ball in the middle of
a workout and then resume training. I think it is important
to reward him with a game of fetch at the end of the entire workout.
|10-25-2013 08:45 AM|
|kbella999||I use a ball for the majority of my training. When my dog does what I ask him to do, then I will throw the ball and he goes and gets it. That is what he loves to do. I don't think I would do ten commands and then give him the ball though. If you are doing obedience then he should get rewarded after he does what you have asked him to do.|
|10-25-2013 02:29 AM|
High Ball Drive and Training
I'm positive that I can use a ball with Midnite for training and get excellent results. This might sound silly, but I'm not sure how to use it I've always used treats, but this dog has an over the top ball drive. He has a ball 90 percent of the time, if he loses the ball he does not stop looking until he finds it. The other day I was on the couch laying down with Robyn and the couch started moving, he moved us to get to the ball under the couch. He falls asleep with the ball in his mouth, he goes to the bathroom with the ball in his mouth, he puts the ball in his food bowl while he eats, then grabs it when he is done. If he's outside he goes into search mode with his nose to the ground moving fairly quickly in a what I would call almost frantic to find his ball. If I'm doing short sessions or even in class, how do I reward him with the ball? After every successful command he gets the ball for a brief moment and I take if back? Can I use it for focus work? If I do 10 commands, where in that sequence does he get the ball? At the end? I really want to incorporate the ball into training. Any tips would be helpful.