|09-10-2013 02:33 AM|
|09-10-2013 01:48 AM|
i know i done the wrong thing letting them out that morning. my mistake totaly but i never thought they could get the gate open (smart doggies)
. littermates are hard core and i have learnt the hard way. the bitch came to work with me every day and the male stayed at home with the wife and kids. we trained every day with them and they were fantastic but put them together and it was just trouble i also no that they are still babies and need alot more training etc . they have been taken back to the breaders and one has already found a great home at the beach, i dont like my desision here but i think it was for the best for us and them to give them the best posible out come. when we ever decide to get another dog it will only be one and i hope it to still be a shepherd. this has taught me a awfull lot about what to do and not what to do. i feel i have done the right thing despite people flaming me.
|09-06-2013 11:11 AM|
Thank you for that informative post, I will pass it along. It would certainly explain why shepherds and malinois are different from border collies and such.
Again in the interest of general dog topics, this is a pic taken forty years ago back in New York State...
At that time, in America, the Old English Sheepdog was trendy, but being bred here for hair and size and not much else.
Mozart there, in the pic, was an actual British dog imported from England, the wealthy lady that had imported him was one of the horsey set but quickly found Mozart too much to handle. When he started guarding the horses and the horse barns against their actual owners that was too much
And so he was passed on to us. Really our first dog as we had recently moved here from England ourselves, and were never able to have dogs as kids because our parents knew we'd be emigrating at some point.
I have never seen an actual working Old English Sheepdog, even in England, but Mozart turned out to be a wonderful dog, with good working dog brains. About 50lbs full grown (smaller than the American Old English version at the time), shaved of his hair he resembled a fuzzy, tailless, lop-eared, barrel-chested doberman and was blessed with a similar speed and agility.
I never did see him kill anything though, not even a mouse.
Our house at the time had an old-fashioned porch with inside and outside doors enclosing about a 6'x6' alcove. We had chickens (which Mozart didn't bother) and kept the bag of feed in the corner of this alcove.
One day there was this large rat hiding under the sack of feed so I called the dog, closed me, the dog and the rat inside the alcove, and with a flourish pulled aside the sack of feed....
All heck broke loose The rat bouncing off of the walls and running up my legs, the dog right on the rat, and me jumping around yelling at the dog to get the rat.
But... he would NOT bite down on it. Finally I ended up stomping on the rat to kill it.
I have always figured that was an example of an inhibited bite reflex, and presumed that was from his sheepdog roots.
|09-06-2013 09:55 AM|
In AKC herding trials, gripping is not allowed. In AHBA, dogs may grip the sheep if it is warranted (to get them moving). Obviously, excessive gripping is not allowed.
These puppies, unfortunately, just didn't know any better and did not have any supervision. Not their fault. At 9 yrs old, I would *possibly* let my female around livestock unsupervised for a few minutes if I had to (and it would depend on the livestock - certainly not chickens, etc). If her brother (Levi) were still alive, NEVER - he would make some poor decisions on his own, yet he was an excellent herder. Together would I allow them unsupervised around livestock? - an even stronger NEVER than just letting Levi around them unsupervised.
|09-06-2013 07:48 AM|
I have heard of sheep that from the day they are born they are looking for new and inventive ways to die
Point of interest, I was talking with an Idaho rancher friend over the 'net recently re: sheepdogs. Cattle dogs like heelers and I suppose the original corgis commonly drive cows with their teeth ie. biting at the cow's heels to get it to move. Hence both these breeds are notorious ankle-biters on humans.
OTOH I have always heard that biting or nipping sheep in a sheepdog is regarded as a serious fault and that they are bred with a bite inhibition.
My friend related a case where his sister's yorkie got into a pen with a lamb and went into full terrier mode, attacking it and actually hanging by its teeth from the wool.
Sounds comical but the lamb later died even though no visible wounds were inflicted, the way my friend explained was that a sheep's skin is but loosely attached to the body and the tiny dog had caused enough subdermal damage by hanging from it that the sheep died.
...and I agree with previous posters, a long leash and firm consistent discipline early one oughtta nip livestock chasing in the bud from the get go. Various family members own horses, cattle and sheep, and it is a given that their dogs (mostly heelers now) are left loose around them.
On the topic of loose dogs getting shot....
Here in Texas a rifle, especially the various assault rifle clones, are common implements on ranches, brung along for use on feral hogs, coyotes and loose dogs. That sort of rifle being all at once reliable, portable, and having the range and firepower to efficiently hit as many pigs as possible before they flee out of sight and to allow multiple attempts to hit fleeing coyotes. Many ranchers/landowners also shoot ALL loose dogs on sight, especially if they don't recognize them.
Just too much money tied up in their animals to do anything different.
|09-06-2013 01:03 AM|
Me too. If only there was a LIKE and DISLIKE button on every post. This would have been a LIKE.
|09-06-2013 12:23 AM|
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|09-05-2013 02:04 PM|
This is going to be a bit harsher then I like but your pups did not kill your daughter's lamb.
I am floored that in addition to this incident you made the statement that the farmers are getting fed up. I live in a farming community, if my dogs started harassing livestock it would be their death sentence and while it would break my heart I would be responsible for their deaths, not the farmer protecting his living.
This is a trainable issue. If you are willing to train it. If not, for whatever reason, please return the pups to the breeder so that they have a chance.
|09-05-2013 01:24 PM|
|09-05-2013 11:14 AM|
This kind of post absolutely floors me. You got two predators, whose method of playing involves killing. That is what dogs do when they go after a toy, they pretend to kill it.
Two predators, forming a little pack, left around baby livestock. Hmmmm...
Yeah. Rehoming these dogs would be a great idea.
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