|12-05-2013 11:41 AM|
We are interested in seeing a holistic vet, but this will probably have to wait until next month. Between the travel costs to get down here, the chicken, the IMS visit, endoscopy, new meds, etc. my bank account is more or less dry. Luckily we should have some time after the holidays to meet with someone.
We have not tried Kocci Free, but we have tried l-glutamine, slippery elm, bovine colostrum, probiotics, and pancreatin. At the time he was eating raw (skinless split chicken breasts and thighs), but was also still on steroids and antibiotics.
He has had cPL and does not have pancreatitis. His most recent bloodwork was normal.
We are currently using SeaCure. It hasn't helped with his weight but does seem to improve his energy.
We did try Honest Kitchen, both the Thrive and the Embark. I really wish he would have done well on it because I think it's a solid company and I wouldn't mind feeding him the dehydrated permanently. Very convenient, especially while traveling. Unfortunately, he couldn't handle it. Even after soaking it in more water than it needed, soaking overnight, blending it, and adding digestive enzymes both varieties went straight through him more or less undigested. He went from one BM a day to three or four, and each had completely undigested chunks of carrots, potatoes, parsley, kale, etc.
I would love to manage this completely holistically, but I am just not confident enough in those treatments to forgo Western medicine. If I can get him stable using traditional drugs and then consult with a holistic vet for long-term management, I'll be perfectly happy.
I would love to do raw long-term, too, but I don't think it's practical for where I live in Alaska. We get very few protein sources (really only chicken and beef, and neither are affordable) and no organ meats at all.
|12-05-2013 02:20 AM|
|GatorBytes||Perhaps you should consider doing a phone consult with a holistic vet, you can fax/email records, blood work, test results and then discuss over phone treatment plan.|
|12-05-2013 01:59 AM|
Wow, sounds similar to what me and my dog have been through. Currently, I have him on a single protein food (pork) and really just give him a crap ton of probiotics/enzymes. He is also in the middle of a course of Kocci Free (good results so far, although not sure if its due to that or other measures I have been taking) he gets canned pumpkin, and he gets slippery elm to soothe his GI tract. No treats, no chews....nada. Its hard.
As GatorBytes has mentioned, all those things are great. I've been trying to get some L-Glutamine and colostrum.
|12-05-2013 01:51 AM|
WOW. Too many drugs, flip flopping, increasing, changing with no breaks. Your dogs GI tract is inflamed no doubt.
Back to basics. RAW, but go low fat and no grains, no fibre unless maybe 1-2 tblsp. of pure pumpkin (canned), no veg, no fruit, no yogurt
Enzymes should contain pancreatin or better pancrelipase (lipase breaks down fats)
Kocci free was mentioned - treats coccidia and giardia, is natural and has been used by many on here where drugs failed.
Start using the L-glutamine for repair to villi
bovine colostrum, if you have it - use it. In addition to colostrum, you should look at a product called SeaCure, the company (Proper Nutrition) also has a colostrum/seacure combo called SeaVive
Did any specialists question the pancreas as in pancreatitis (not EPI). What colour are the poops?
Another supplement you could consider is Milk Thistle - your poor dog is going to need this after what the pharmaceutical cocktail has done to his liver (also an enzyme producing organ)
|12-05-2013 01:47 AM|
|Gretchen||Have you tried the food brand, The Honest Kitchen? please buy a small box or a few samples and see if your dog does well on this. They are based in San Diego and if you call them directly, they could probably recommend a flavor to start with.|
|12-05-2013 01:19 AM|
Thought I'd drop back in and update this thread. We did a 45-day course of Tylan without any improvement. At the end of October we weaned him off the steroids and stopped all antibiotics. It was clear that they weren't doing him any good. He's been eating boiled chicken and white potato for 9 weeks now. He loves it and never refuses (unlike kibble). We briefly tried transitioning him to Purina HA (a hydrolyzed protein kibble) but it really made him hurt, so we stopped.
We've taken a trip to the lower 48 to visit friends and family for the holidays, so we were able to meet with an internal medicine specialist. He had endoscopy with biopsies. The IMS didn't give it a "diagnosis" but said he had significant swelling throughout his stomach and small intestine, primarily lymphocytes but also eosinophils. Although it was not given a name, I suppose it would be considered IBD.
The hard part for us is that traditional treatment for IBD is a combination of a novel protein diet, steroids, and antibiotics. Rigby, for the past six months, has already been through many combinations of steroids and antibiotics of different types and doses, with limited success, as well as an 8-week novel protein food trial (with a venison-based kibble, which he eventually refused). I am not sure that the chicken is great for him (and it's definitely not a balanced diet) but he's excited to it eat and never refuses, and his stools are more consistent on it (only once or twice a day, though too soft). He is still in pain-- groaning and repositioning, lots of gas, etc.
The IMS wants to try him on chlorambucil since steroids have not worked for him. Hopefully it will actually help him and then we can switch him over to a more nutritionally complete food.
|09-03-2013 04:56 PM|
I would not add any supplements except probiotics and B12 shots if he's deficient at this point. If he's reacting to something you will have no idea why if you introduce too many things at once. My dog did not tolerate colostrum, did not tolerate fish oil, even though these supplements are supposed to be very good.
I don't see why the only solution the specialist has is to keep your dog on high dose of steroids if there is no improvement. Tylosin will work, and it can be used long term for dogs with chronic colitis.
|09-03-2013 04:19 PM|
Thanks again to everyone for your continuing suggestions.
I would like to take him off all meds, but not sure it's the best move at that point. I'm torn between not wanting him on any medication at all, and trying to trust the specialist to know what's she's doing and help get him back on track.
He ate pretty well yesterday, raw BARF mix morning and evening and a meaty beef bone midday. I'm not sure if the beef bone set him off, but he does NOT feel well this morning. Wouldn't finish his breakfast and has been really uncomfortable all morning. Maybe he can't handle meaty bones yet? I'd like to feed him chicken necks and backs and turkey necks to help keeps costs down, but now I'm reluctant because I have no idea whether this "flare up" of sorts is because of the bone or just general.
I guess the good news is that he's only going once a day right now. His BM this morning was relatively compact. The inner texture was odd... stringy? foamy? I'm not sure I can describe it properly. And every grain and seed went straight through undigested. Right now I'm feeding a pre-mix made by a local woman who feeds her own dogs raw. I'm not sure grains and starches like potato are the best for him, but I'm also not nearly confident enough to attempt to try and make up a raw diet for him myself.
I did order some digestive enzymes, more probiotics, more slippery elm, and some B12 and bovine colostrum this morning. Hopefully all that and some l-glutamine will help soothe his GI tract a bit.
The specialist is out of town this week. I'm going to try as she suggested and bump his steroids to 2x daily. But if he hasn't improved by next Monday, I think I'll call in and request that we stop all his current meds, and perhaps try tylosin.
|09-02-2013 05:30 PM|
I like this digest. enzyme/probiotic
DOGZYMES® Probiotic Max – 2 Pound » Natures Farmacy Inc.
DOGZYMES Digestive Enhancer Dissolvable Powder – 1 Pound » Natures Farmacy Inc.
Also, raw goats milk worked well for us.
Answers Raw Pet Food Company: Our Products
Answers Raw Pet Food Company: History of Raw Milk
|09-02-2013 05:19 PM|
Ask your vet about Tylosin. Its an antibiotic, used off label for dogs. That was the drug that ended up clearing up my guys case of chronic diarrhea. He'll have to be on it twice daily for probably a month or longer, but you'll know if it clears it up. Ive found it wasn't as hard on my dogs GI tract as the metronidazole was. Also, if he does have Giardia, it can be really hard to treat/eliminate from the environement, and he can keep re-infecting himself. It is NOT shed in every stool, so you could get a negative stool sample, but he could be positive for giardia.
Also, sorry if you mentioned this, but maybe try an LID food. Potatoes were causing over growth of yeast in my guys body, and was making his stools smelly/loose. He is on Zignature now (wish he would eat raw... but he's been refusing it) and his stools are normal. A raw diet should accomplish the same thing.
Possible yeast overgrowth could be causing the issue. Especially with all the meds hes been on (metronidazole, panacur, doxy) those are taking a HUGE toll on his GI tract, and killing ALL bacteria, good AND bad. So, the yeast can take over. If he is not already, I'd put him on a really good probiotic, and digestive enzymes.
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