|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|01-03-2013 11:37 AM|
|Lakl||Well, if someone starts a new thread, please post the link!|
|01-03-2013 11:26 AM|
Originally Posted by SFGSSD View Post
Again, I hate to name names because I'm terrible with names and I don't want to leave anyone out, but I know that Julia Priest, Christine Kemper, Molly Graf, Carmspack, and others on and off the forum have bred dogs that went into service. Carmspack was breeding show x working litters back in the day. Molly Graf is breeding show x working, as well as someone else on the forum whose name I can't recall--I hope they pop into this conversation--I believe a working female with a show male.
Has anyone created a line of dogs that consistently look like show lines and work like working lines, that consistently go into service, and have they done it by crossing the two lines until their line is stable? That, I do not know. So if that is what you are talking about, you're right, it hasn't been acheived on a large scale. I know people are trying.
We should start a new thread on this subject, it's a good one!
|01-03-2013 10:15 AM|
Originally Posted by Lakl View Post
|01-03-2013 10:02 AM|
Terry thinks he's been met at the door by a gang of breeders when actually I think the only breeder really responding on this thread is Carmen. (apologies if I missed someone)
Seeing how he was only introducing himself wouldn't it make more sense to continue this conversation by having it on a more appropriate forum?
|01-03-2013 09:03 AM|
I don't know anything about breeding, but Jinopo had a nice Working/Show cross stud that they used quite a bit.
VÝBORNÝ Zen z Jirkova dvora
He has been bred to both working and showline dams. Sadly, he passed last year from a stomach torsion, but they continue to use one of his sons, Orion, at stud.
One of his pups from a SL breeding.
Of course, I can't speak anything about their versatility in the working world. I just know of them and the kennel that has been breeding over 40 years.
|01-03-2013 01:55 AM|
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
|01-03-2013 01:35 AM|
many of us know Pia Blackwell through a genetics list ... she does not use show lines? from here web site "
We choose to breed working line German Shepherds Dogs primarily out of west german working lines .
For the following reason .
A good German Shepherd should have drive ,desire, nerves, and temperament to do its work well but in no way should this mean that the dog is hyper,
can't calm down, is incapable of being a family dog or is unreliable , hectic or worse unpredictable. When a good balance is achieved by careful selection
of bloodlines and breeding stock the dog can and will work on the streets, sport fields with high enthusiasm ,drive
and desire to work under it's handler direction. Come home and relax and play with the kids .
Many people have the notion that working line dogs are harder to live with. I strongly disagree!!
I have worked and lived for many years with both lines. In the early to late 1980 one still could find
a good percentage of dogs out of "german show line " lineage and get a very good working dog
along with good nerve .
EXAMPLE ..1998 Brevet Ringsport Champion V- rated Byron vom Rheinland ScHH3 ,HIC,Brevet ,KKL1 ,
This has changed drastically during the course of the last 15 years !
High percentage of "show line dogs lack the nerve strength and self-confidence , have issues with strange
environment and sadly much less capable of doing what the breed was intended for,
serve and work along mankind to achieve tasks that this breed is known and respected for throughout the world!!
Furthermore , the rear angulation of the German show line is becoming scary similar
to the American bred German Shepherd. Dogs with to much rear angulation will loose their function of agility .
Angulation is necessary but over angulation is not functional . In my opinion the working line puppy vs the show line puppy have two distinct differences in
behaviors . working line pups are more out going,like to explore,run right up to strangers and love to play! show line pups are more reserved have issues in
strange environment and rather stick to the side of their owner which is lack of confidence . Keep in mind that my observations are by percentage of dogs
and experience in each line. NOT BY INDIVIDUAL ANIMALS . I also learned through experience that the working lines are healthier and hardier.
I opted to live work and base my breeding program on working line German Shepherds to maintain what the breed was created for by the founder of the
breed Max von Stephaniz- who said and I quote keep my breed a working dog as I worked all my live to achieve that goal .
My breeding program started with west german conformation lines however to maintain a good percentage of workable and serviceable dogs primarly out
of show lines was not to my satisfaction. Today, with a good line up of dog's with excellent and proven working bloodlines and my passion for the breed .
I have reached a plateau in my breeding program I can be proud of .
Throughout my web pages you will notice dogs carrying the "vom Rheinland "name working in different venues .Again the versatility of the breed is of up
most importance so dogs can keep serving mankind in all types of different service department and are not limited to one or two tasks ! In addition vom
Rheinland Dogs are very pleasing to the eye with very good overall structure ,expression ,pigment and strength.
With so many lines of work, such as Police K-9, narcotic/explosive detection, guiding the blind, or special needs assistant dogs and also on the sport field
there is always a possibility, that the dog be exposed to something the handler/trainer did not prepare for. In such a case, the dog HAS to have nerve
strength to absorb and overcome the new situation without departing the task at hand .In the home a dog must have good nerve in order to tolerate a child
stumping over it , kids running through the door with friends in tow ,a dog with good nerve and character can judge a situation .
Special mention in this paragraph to Cole vom Rheinland deployed to ground zero ,9-11-01 , a task no man or beast could have
prepared for !!
With a well-bred, stable and sound German Shepherd, you can expect a dog you can be proud of .
Never dull or fragile in it's appearance
vom Rheinland can provide you with a German Shepherd the way he was meant to be!! Loyal,intelligent,strong ,confident ,good
natured ,versatile and a pleasure to the eye .
Pia M. Blackwell
vom Rheinland German Shepherds
Byron vom Rheinland
extreme over angulation
very good -normal angulation
west german working line
|01-03-2013 01:14 AM|
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
|01-03-2013 12:25 AM|
Originally Posted by Freestep
What aspects of temperament does the show line have that the working line lacks? I know you wanted to take this to PM, but public discussion helps everyone learn. There are a lot of newbies and other interested folk here researching the breed.
While I appreciate your interest in my views in this regard I do not care to answer another question that potentially has a lot of room for debate at this time. I am sorry but I work 12+ hours a day and do not have time to keep up with a huge debate publicly.
In other words no answers .
Seems a bit of a hybrid mess. If you are a producer for working dogs then you have one concern one responsiblity and that is producing dogs that perform to the highest standards of whatever purpose they are to be used.
Not some personal indulgence about VA's and BSP in one dog , neither which has any bearing on work-function ---not for guide, therapy-assistance, police .
"When I talk to other breeders about what I would like to do when I decided to move forward with my father’s theory’s in a breeding program, the most common response I get from VERY experienced breeders is "Good luck, "
so who are these very experienced breeders ?
1967 German Seiger
Ch. Bodo v. Lierberg ROM, SchH III, FH, Kkl 1, CACIB
1967 German Sgr. Ch. Bodo v. Lierberg ROM, SchH III, FH, KKL1, CACIB
Breeder: K. Klug; Mulheim/Ruhr
Owner: Mr. Erich Renner
Born: March 16th, 1962
producer of guide dogs
|01-02-2013 11:49 PM|
Originally Posted by Loneforce View Post
Thanks for the Welcome!
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