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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-07-2013 11:10 AM
Jaders I just recently started using a prong collar which was recommended by my trainer. My previous Shepherd was delightful, so a prong wasn't needed and barely used the choker that was on him. Gunner on the other hand is a handful. The prong makes corrections easier and I have noticed he is better now than he was before without the prong.

Since the prong is his "working/training/going out collar", it is in the closet and is only used for those things. I plan on slowly taking the prong away if he can learn to behave as years come.
01-30-2013 04:20 PM
Marnie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questforfire View Post
Thanks everyone for your replies so far. I have heard many say that the prong is more humane than the check chain, and I think I would be inclined to agree. My GSDs are all on half check collars and I have never had to use a prong on mine yet, but I have the motto live and let live, so would never try and tell someone else that they shouldn't be using a piece of equipment just because I choose not to use it myself
Foxy backed out of what you call a half check (we call them martingale collars) at the vets office and would have exited the building if the outside door had been opened. She was an adult with no manners when I got her from the shelter. Since she has 4 wheel drive, she could pull me of balance quite easily. I fitted her with a collar similar to the prong to stop her pulling. It is much better than a choker in situations like this. The harnesses and halters are good but not in a situation like I described.
01-30-2013 04:05 PM
Fynn&Vandy I didn't intend to use one at first and, had never used one before but, my puppy would walk with our other dog. I mean she thought they he was walking all of us rather than my boyfriend or I walking her. She would tug, pull, zig zag, lay down, anything she felt like doing. Im very lucky that after three or four days I didn't need it anymore. It quickly made her realize she is walking with me, anything else is no fun. I don't understand permanent use of them but, I guess all dogs are different.
01-30-2013 03:48 PM
GusGus I've only seen 2 dogs wearing prong collars. Mine and a over-excited pit. lol.
I started using mine for walking on a leash and now I am using it to get Gus's reactive behavior under control. I have also put his prong on myself and it doesn't bother me. I've been instructed on how to properly use it and it's extremely effective.
01-30-2013 03:36 PM
TxFig
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questforfire View Post
Thanks everyone for your replies so far. I have heard many say that the prong is more humane than the check chain, and I think I would be inclined to agree. My GSDs are all on half check collars and I have never had to use a prong on mine yet, but I have the motto live and let live, so would never try and tell someone else that they shouldn't be using a piece of equipment just because I choose not to use it myself

I know this thread is ~2 months old, but I hope the OP is still on. This is kind of a SOAPBOX topic for me...

I am getting my 1st GSD in a few weeks, but I've bred, trained, & trialed Labs for 20+ years. Meaning: "I'm not exactly a novice".


My answer for why do I use a prong collar is because: it is
  1. MUCH safer
  2. MUCH more effective
  3. MUCH easier to use
For safety: a prong collar works by PINCHING the skin. If sized properly, it is impossible to do any damage at all. Ever. But don't take my word for it - do what I did - get one and put it on your forearm and give it a yank. It will pinch.


Compare this to choke collars - these work by pulling on the body and by constricting (to an infinitely small loop). It's possible to do real damage to a dog's trachea (in fact, some vet research indicates it's very hard to avoid doing at least some damage). I simply will never own a choke collar.




Effectiveness: for any correction to be effective, it has to be timed correctly. That means not only does it need to be unpleasant when you want the unpleasantness - but the correction needs to immediately stop when the dog is doing what you want it to do. A pinch/prong collar does just this. Again - try it on your forearm. When you release the tension, the pinch stops immediately.






Ease of use: with a choke collar, it takes some pretty good muscle/size to give an effective correction. With a pinch collar, the prongs do all the work. Quite literally - a child can control an adult dog with a prong collar.
01-28-2013 07:48 AM
cliffson1 You do not tend to see prong collars used in the American show world....really isn't a need for them....I think the same applies in UK, in most cases.
01-28-2013 06:41 AM
julie87 I never knew prong collars were the "US norm" in fact I didn't know about those collars until I got my first GSD.

Why do I use them? Hmmm let me think..Because I need my arm and my hand...and because they WORK Dogs don't pull if wearing a prong collar. It is a TEMPRORARY solution while training leash walking.

I also use it when going to new places where I know the dog will be too excited and will do a lot of pulling which I can't control.
01-28-2013 05:44 AM
wink-_-wink the quick answer.....because they work! Hero is dog reactive and not the social butterfly he was as a pup. He will bark at EVERYTHING and drag you down the road on a flat buckle collar (he knows what collar he has on and knows what he can get away with if he cant get pronged). Long story short, barking and loose leash walking works better with the prong for us. Eventually we won't need it but for now it is a tool in our toolbox to train him with
01-27-2013 06:29 PM
SFGSSD
Quote:
Originally Posted by codmaster View Post
Very true with some trainers - some will also tell you "use a HIGHER VALUE" reward.

And I have likewise found that sometimes when the dog is over the top with excitement, NO reward other than the object of their excitement will get and keep their attention! And if you tell such a trainer that, then the line is to "take him/her away from the object" and, yes, it can be VERY difficult to do that sometimes. Another catch phrase one will hear a lot is "Get them below THRESHHOLD" i.e. remove them from the distraction far enough so they are not affected by it.

In initial training, this is a good idea but eventually we need to proof the dog behavior in real situations where it can be impossible to be able to do this all the time.

Nothing wrong with using a prong to "get their attention" back to where it should be (YOU!)

Sounds like you are haveing much success with your dog. Congrats!

Be sure also to wean him off of the prong to a regular collar as you are able to. Ask your trainer about this when you can.
Nicely said.
There are a lot of "problems" with any approach if the method is not matched with the right dog and/or being used correctly. The true definition of a "balanced" approach is being able to identify when, and what is appropriate for each individual dog AND handler.
* "Balanced" is not code for anything
* "Positive" training is a term to appeal to the masses. Most good "Positive" trainers are actually more of a "Balanced" trainer than a positive one, but when you talk to them, it is clear that they are just in denial
I suggest you get this book. It is written by Tammie Rogers a respected IACP Professional member.
Dog Algebra: When Positive Reinforcement Fails To Solve The Problem
Dog Algebra: When Positive Reinforcement Fails To Solve The Problem (Volume 1): Tammie Rogers: 9781479170630: Amazon.com: Books Dog Algebra: When Positive Reinforcement Fails To Solve The Problem (Volume 1): Tammie Rogers: 9781479170630: Amazon.com: Books

01-27-2013 05:29 PM
codmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by dioworld View Post
I've start training my pup from 3 months old using positive reinforcement. There's a few problem these positive trainer ignores

1) My dog doesn't really like treats, yes we use these stinky smell high value treats, after giving him 15 treats on 15 steps of heeling, he ignores it

2) These treats are bad for your dog, I'm suprise these bs trainer say prong collar is bad for your dog, but giving them dozens and dozens of treat to them everyday is okay. I would not allow my kids to eat few packs of chocolate a day, pretty much the same concept

3) When my dog is exciting, no treat or anything stop him. They told me i need to setup a situation to train them. In reality, this is impossible. Dogs and humans do walk on the street, i cannot prevent someone opening their garage with their dog .

So i went with a trainer that taught me to use prong collar. yes I feel bad correcting him in the beginning, but after few months of training, i don't have to correct him that much.
I have total control over him even when he's in excitement.

Very true with some trainers - some will also tell you "use a HIGHER VALUE" reward.

And I have likewise found that sometimes when the dog is over the top with excitement, NO reward other than the object of their excitement will get and keep their attention! And if you tell such a trainer that, then the line is to "take him/her away from the object" and, yes, it can be VERY difficult to do that sometimes. Another catch phrase one will hear a lot is "Get them below THRESHHOLD" i.e. remove them from the distraction far enough so they are not affected by it.

In initial training, this is a good idea but eventually we need to proof the dog behavior in real situations where it can be impossible to be able to do this all the time.

Nothing wrong with using a prong to "get their attention" back to where it should be (YOU!)

Sounds like you are haveing much success with your dog. Congrats!

Be sure also to wean him off of the prong to a regular collar as you are able to. Ask your trainer about this when you can.
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