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Thread: ‘World’s most famous wolf’ shot and killed outside Yellowstone Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-14-2012 01:23 AM
Magwart I just did some more digging, as I found it strange that so many of the kills in this first year of Wyoming "trophy hunting" were wolves wearing research collars. I've seen those collars from a field scope, and they are very big and obvious. You can't miss them. One would think any rational person would see the $4,000 research collar and leave it be.

In fact, the opposite apparently happened. There is some suspicion that some Wyoming hunters tracked the radio frequency used for the collars and specifically targeted the research wolves as soon as they left the park boundary. There are reportedly hunter facebook pages crowing about killing collared wolves. I hope it's not true, but it's sickening if it is.
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12-14-2012 01:15 AM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magwart View Post
We went to Lamar Valley in the winter to wolf watch a few years ago inside Yellowstone. It was magnificent. The wolves are often visible in the valley from the road with field scopes.

I believe she is the gorgeous female we watched playing with her pups for an entire morning. This makes me ill.

She was hunted. See: Hunters Kill Another Radio-Collared Yellowstone National Park Wolf - ScienceInsider
She wasn't killed to protect livestock or because she was endangering anything -- this is sanctioned killing for sport.
There were a number of permits sold for wolves. 8 was the limit this year. 8 were killed. The fish and wildlife determine the number. Taking out some of the wolves means that the rest of the wolves will be better able to withstand the winter. It is population control. Without it, the wolves will range farther in search of game, and anything that they can catch and eat they will go after when they are hungry. So yes, it was to protect livestock and because the number of wolves are endangering the wolf population.

Good for the hunters. Good hunters are the best conservationists.

The Grand Canyon Kaibab Plateau, used to host and awesome herd of deer. Some people thought they were a national treasure and must be preserved. They stopped all hunting of the deer. They killed off the predators and the herd numbered a hundred thousand. This is back in the 1920s. Anyhow, in a few years the deer were starving and the overbrowsing by the deer damaged the land. Fish and wildlife have to carefully cull both the natural predators and the deer to keep things in balance.

If they said eight wolves should be removed, then that is what should have happened. Too bad, it was a wild critter. It was shot and killed. It could have lost its life through accident, starving, injury, illness, strike of lighting. I do see what the big fuss is.
12-14-2012 12:49 AM
Magwart We went to Lamar Valley in the winter to wolf watch a few years ago inside Yellowstone. It was magnificent. The wolves are often visible in the valley from the road with field scopes.

I believe she is the gorgeous female we watched playing with her pups for an entire morning. This makes me ill.

She was hunted. See: http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencein...dio-colla.html
She wasn't killed to protect livestock or because she was endangering anything -- this is sanctioned killing for sport.
12-14-2012 12:19 AM
codmaster How about the dogs similar to Komondor?
12-13-2012 06:59 PM
Wild Wolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I'm a city girl so I know very little of wolves and even less about livestock and farming. Is there a domesticated animal a wolf would fear or leave alone? What I'm getting at is in southern Africa there was a big problem with people killing cheetahs because they thought the cheetahs were a risk with their livestock (this was actually not true, the cheetahs very rarely if ever went after livestock, but perception is reality) so they started a program where they gave farmers Anatolian Shepherd dogs and let the dogs protect the livestock from the cheetahs which in turn protected cheetahs from being shot for supposedly endangering livestock. I wonder if there's any dog or other animal that could serve a similar purpose with regard to wolves?
There are many dog breeds I have known to be successful in protecting livestock specifically from wolves. I heard many stories and talked to several people during my wolf conservation efforts.

Caucasian Ovchark, Sao Miguel Cattle Dog, Akbash Dog, Boerboel...

Typically the right dogs for the job are those that are at least the size of a wolf, heavy coated, aggressive/territorial (more so than a wolf's natural aggression), confident, hardy, and independent with a bond to the herd. Best raised in pairs. You need size, aggression, fight drive and confidence/bordering on arrogance to make a good livestock defender.
12-13-2012 05:20 PM
3dognite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I'm a city girl so I know very little of wolves and even less about livestock and farming. Is there a domesticated animal a wolf would fear or leave alone? What I'm getting at is in southern Africa there was a big problem with people killing cheetahs because they thought the cheetahs were a risk with their livestock (this was actually not true, the cheetahs very rarely if ever went after livestock, but perception is reality) so they started a program where they gave farmers Anatolian Shepherd dogs and let the dogs protect the livestock from the cheetahs which in turn protected cheetahs from being shot for supposedly endangering livestock. I wonder if there's any dog or other animal that could serve a similar purpose with regard to wolves?
There are some dogs who they won't mess with as much, but I was just talking to one of my bosses who runs a huge herd of Angus. He has a pack of hounds that he hunts mountain lion with and they can't release them anymore, they have to hunt on-leash because the wolves will kill them. They recently bought a Great Pyrenees to help with the problem but it's hit and miss when they run such a big herd.
12-13-2012 04:47 PM
Liesje I'm a city girl so I know very little of wolves and even less about livestock and farming. Is there a domesticated animal a wolf would fear or leave alone? What I'm getting at is in southern Africa there was a big problem with people killing cheetahs because they thought the cheetahs were a risk with their livestock (this was actually not true, the cheetahs very rarely if ever went after livestock, but perception is reality) so they started a program where they gave farmers Anatolian Shepherd dogs and let the dogs protect the livestock from the cheetahs which in turn protected cheetahs from being shot for supposedly endangering livestock. I wonder if there's any dog or other animal that could serve a similar purpose with regard to wolves?
12-13-2012 04:27 PM
LARHAGE I hate to hear this as well, but as 3dognite said, I too have horses, and I can only imagine how I would feel if wolves were trying to attack my precious little weanling Tia, I too would be out there with a rifle to do whatever it took to keep her safe, I am all for finding some solutions that would work for everyone, I know how bad the Coyotes are and can only imagine larger, more powerful killers lurking in the dark, I'm mortal enemies with the Coyotes because of them killing some of my animals.
12-13-2012 12:24 PM
Courtney Interesting insight 3dognite, thanks for sharing that.

In the situation you described I understand the frustration.
12-13-2012 12:13 PM
3dognite I've always been very supportive of the reintroduction effort. I remember arguing about it with colleagues in the mid-90's.

However, I also work with the agricultural sector on a regular basis. Many of the ranchers/farmers that I work with are seeing massive kills from wolves, where the wolf has been seen killing indiscriminately and not eating it's kill. They'll get into cow herds when they are calving and have a field day on the newborns and the mama cows that are birthing. I know that dogs work well, but they aren't perfect.

The biggest problem that I see is that the wolves are like grizzly bears in that there is no competition--they are at the top of the food chain. And the packs are multiplying like crazy. There does need to be some population control, or soon they will be going after the suburbs (seriously, like coyotes, this will happen). And while it makes me sad to think about them dying, I also know that unchecked, their population will continue to explode.
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