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Thread: Advice seriously needed please,spaying/mange Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-10-2012 08:02 PM
carmspack The way this argument is being phrased it almost sounds like whole female body integrity is a disease , sounds like the thinking of Freud, or the misogynists who felt that a hysterectomy was a cure for depresssion, frustration, anger at a hopeless situtation.
Heat cycles are normal .
Boost the dogs entire health. This goes for males also.
What a wonderful solution this is.
Are we speaking of Dogs Naturally-- sure it is a business with a bias against unnecessary harmful , costly , procedures and practices -- very earnest and dead serious . Recently had lunch with the publisher editor and we spoke of vaccines and deliberately suppressed , peer reviewed research indicating that nosodes are as effective if not more so than injection vaccinations , and that big pharma is sitting up and paying attention to the ground swell of informed people , wanting to introduce "control" the nosode market for themselves. There is where the business is .
Response to spay -- if you must , then do so , but do wait until the dog is fully mature . One reason to spay early is that it promotes infantile behaviour , does not allow for maturity , so the dog is held in pup-forever . Just like the eunuchs , the castrati , of early Roman - Greco history .
I have females living to honorable old age without having been spayed without problems , whatsoever , currently Sabrina in her 10th year .

People know I will help a dog and so I have come home to more than one dog in dire need for care , wet and oozing with demodex mange -- diagnosed by my bricks and mortar conventional vet , then cared for by me - nutrition.
Some good hints out of the Juliette de bairacli levy books, including using organic sulfur (juiced garlic - pure strenght ) externally directly on the spot. MSM also is an organic sulfur , apply on spot , and boost food with MSM .
First though I would shampoo with Defendex -- wish I had that for the last dog I dealt with a few years back. Would have been so much easier and genlter for the dog.
12-10-2012 07:25 PM
GatorBytes
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-GSD View Post
Hi I've been lurking here and decided to give my 2c and share my experience on this post. My newest puppy got localized demodex who at the time was around the same age as your pup. I worried at first but consulted with some holistic followers who eased my mind and helped me through. My dogs "treatment" was simply good nutrition. Real food, not kibble. She cleared up super fast and now is going through her first heat cycle with NO problems with demodex flair ups. This dog isn't an adult having these problems, it's a puppy and it's a fairly common problem in them due to an immature immune system. If the dog was an intact adult going through this and the problem was from heat cycles then yes, I would say spay the dog but it's not. I would keep her intact for a while, dogs need to grow and the organs do more than just allowing the dog to get pregnant.
Welcome SS-GSD, what a timely post! Introduce yourself to the forum, love to hear success stories w/nutritional support, keep sharing
12-10-2012 07:18 PM
GatorBytes
Quote:
Originally Posted by msvette2u View Post
Actually no.
I am all for spaying/neutering after 1st heat or at 18mos. in a boy, (although yearly we do some 80-100 pediatric s/n without issue,) as long as the owner feels up to that, and is competent to keep the animal in question from reproducing (no "oops" litters, right?)

However, in dogs prone to demodex you will not find one shred of evidence that says you need to wait until they are 18mos-2yrs. to spay. Every bit of info out there states to spay the bitches prior to their heat cycles as the hormonal changes are sure to throw the demo into high gear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msvette2u View Post
Has this happened to you, Doc? A bitch that continued to have demodex after 5-6 mos.? That every 6mos. her demodex flared due to the continued heat cycles?

I'm curious, because, due to the fact a dog that continues to have demodex beyond the typical puppy age (by 4-5mos. the immune system should have kicked it) has an immune component missing, or a faulty immune system, they recommend spaying so the bitch won't be bred. The recommendation in general is to cull that bitch from a breeding program...if heat cycles make it flare, can you imagine what a full-blown pregnancy would do?
(check out the links I posted, btw)

How many times can you do this? Argue your opinion as though it is the only one that counts. You have had your opinion, you posted it, how many more times do you have to keep pushing....so if someone gives their view, they must be brow beaten until everyone gives up and you are heard last...???

You are in the business of re-homing dogs, but you imply to people that you have performed s/n??? 80-100 and ALL are in perfect health, because in all the years @ 150 dogs per year (I believe you estimated 1000 dogs over your rescue time), not one single solitary dog has gone on to have any issue with anything you have suggested and yet every single day there is a new post of a yeasty, itchy, mangey, ear infected, anal gland, fistulas, diarrhea, immune/endocrine, aggressive, HD, Hemagiosarcoma, addisons, thyroid, mega E, DM, listless, vaccine reaction, vaccine death, bloat, EPI, IBD, IBS...and on and on and on.......................
12-10-2012 06:48 PM
SS-GSD Hi I've been lurking here and decided to give my 2c and share my experience on this post. My newest puppy got localized demodex who at the time was around the same age as your pup. I worried at first but consulted with some holistic followers who eased my mind and helped me through. My dogs "treatment" was simply good nutrition. Real food, not kibble. She cleared up super fast and now is going through her first heat cycle with NO problems with demodex flair ups. This dog isn't an adult having these problems, it's a puppy and it's a fairly common problem in them due to an immature immune system. If the dog was an intact adult going through this and the problem was from heat cycles then yes, I would say spay the dog but it's not. I would keep her intact for a while, dogs need to grow and the organs do more than just allowing the dog to get pregnant.
12-10-2012 06:38 PM
msvette2u Has this happened to you, Doc? A bitch that continued to have demodex after 5-6 mos.? That every 6mos. her demodex flared due to the continued heat cycles?

I'm curious, because, due to the fact a dog that continues to have demodex beyond the typical puppy age (by 4-5mos. the immune system should have kicked it) has an immune component missing, or a faulty immune system, they recommend spaying so the bitch won't be bred. The recommendation in general is to cull that bitch from a breeding program...if heat cycles make it flare, can you imagine what a full-blown pregnancy would do?
(check out the links I posted, btw)
12-10-2012 06:26 PM
Doc I will contend if you boost the bitch's immune system before her heat cycle she may not have mange the next cycle. I think spaying is a rather radical approach to control mange. JMO

Spaying and neutering puppies is just uncalled for and leads to a less healthy dog as they age. Only under life threatening circumstances should early spay/neuter be performed.
12-10-2012 05:28 PM
msvette2u
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
It makes more sense to you because you advocate early spaying regardless of the circumstances.
Actually no.
I am all for spaying/neutering after 1st heat or at 18mos. in a boy, (although yearly we do some 80-100 pediatric s/n without issue,) as long as the owner feels up to that, and is competent to keep the animal in question from reproducing (no "oops" litters, right?)

However, in dogs prone to demodex you will not find one shred of evidence that says you need to wait until they are 18mos-2yrs. to spay. Every bit of info out there states to spay the bitches prior to their heat cycles as the hormonal changes are sure to throw the demo into high gear.

That goes for any breed, not just GSDs.

Here's links regarding that issue if you'd like more info.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&...w=1011&bih=548
12-10-2012 03:50 PM
Kyleigh
Quote:
It makes more sense to you because you advocate early spaying regardless of the circumstances
Exactly!

When I looked into when to get Kyleigh spayed I was completely overwhelmed with all of the information.

What I heard from EVERY single rescue / humane society was spay EARLY.

What I heard from my holistic vet was wait until about a year.

What I heard from most vets (I called 5 other vet clinics in the area) was wait about a year UNLESS I couldn't prevent her from getting pregnant - don't want puppies.

There is research to support ANY decision you want to make ... doesn't matter what subject it is ... the OP needs to go with what makes them the most comfortable AFTER reading all of the information
12-10-2012 02:14 PM
Doc
Quote:
Originally Posted by msvette2u View Post
I'm not going to get into a contest about who can post the most links. There's tons of evidence that says spaying/neutering early is actually better for dogs, so we could do that all day and fill out multiple threads, I'm sure.

For this pup, spaying just before her first heat makes more sense than waiting multiple heats does.
It makes more sense to you because you advocate early spaying regardless of the circumstances.
12-10-2012 12:53 PM
msvette2u I'm not going to get into a contest about who can post the most links. There's tons of evidence that says spaying/neutering early is actually better for dogs, so we could do that all day and fill out multiple threads, I'm sure.

For this pup, spaying just before her first heat makes more sense than waiting multiple heats does.
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