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Thread: What "lines" are WGSDs from? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-27-2012 09:51 PM
Whiteshepherds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andaka View Post
My main concern with seperating them out is that there are many "pet" or BYB bred dogs that carry the white gene and could produce white puppies from colored parents. Would they be regitered as GSD's or BBS's?
I'll try to explain it the best I can.
AWSA has never asked the GSDCA to change the breed standard or to remove whites from the GSD breed. They wanted the GSDCA to indicate to the AKC that they (GSDCA) would not protest the AKC establishing the White Shehperd as a separate breed within the FSS program. White dogs would be voluntarily reclassified at the discretion of their owners. Only the dogs entered into the FSS and their future progeny would be registered as WS in the FSS.
This group could include AWSA dogs, (now registered with the AKC as GSD's and in the AWSA registry) imported BBS and UKC WS's, if I understand it correctly. People who wanted their white dogs to stay part of the GSD breed would have nothing to do with the process and their dogs wouldn't be affected. Those dogs would continue to be registered as GSD's.
The final outcome, which could take years, would be a distinct breed of dog in the AKC called the WS (or whatever name they finally decide on) The white coated GSD would still exist, just as they exist now alongside the BBS in parts of Europe, as two different breeds of dog.

The only thing that could change and possibly hurt the white GSD breeders who favor staying with the breed is that the GSDCA could decide in the future to change the standard and remove whites from the breed. If that was done after the WS had been recognized by the AKC and after the stud books were closed, all future white coated dogs born to GSD's could not be registered. They would be in the same position as the whites that were born to dogs in the SV. The GSDCA has given no indication that they plan to change the standard. (don't want to start rumors, just throwing out all possibilities)
11-27-2012 04:00 PM
Freestep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andaka View Post
They might be, and sold as "rare".
Of course they will be!

Andaka, do whites ever pop up in American show lines?
11-27-2012 03:53 PM
Andaka
Quote:
In a BYB litter, it probably doesn't (and shouldn't) matter what the offspring are registered as, since they probably shouldn't be breeding anyway.
They might be, and sold as "rare".
11-27-2012 03:40 PM
lhczth If a Mal shows up in a Terv litter or what ever they are considered a Terv with a fault. They are separate breeds in the AKC. So, if the WGSD is made a separate breed any white pups born to GSD would be in the same situation they are in now. A faulty color in the breed still able to do performance events, but not show in conformation. A separation by variety would have made much more sense.
11-27-2012 03:25 PM
Freestep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andaka View Post
My main concern with seperating them out is that there are many "pet" or BYB bred dogs that carry the white gene and could produce white puppies from colored parents. Would they be regitered as GSD's or BBS's?
How did they do it in the past with breeds that started as one breed, then were categorized into separate varieties? Like the Belgians? They are considered one breed with four varieties in Europe, while over here they are four separate breeds (I'm counting the Lakenois, not sure if they have AKC recognition at this point). I'm sure that a longhaired pup has popped up in a Malinois litter in the US, is it simply registered as a Malinois with a coat fault? Or as a Tervuren? And if the latter, what is the process? I can see there being pros and cons to each, it could certainly open up the gene pool for Tervurens for better or worse.

It would be a cumbersome situation if you had a white pop up in a well-bred litter; the WGSD people would no doubt want to get their hands on those bloodlines and have the pup registered as their own.

In a BYB litter, it probably doesn't (and shouldn't) matter what the offspring are registered as, since they probably shouldn't be breeding anyway.
11-27-2012 02:24 PM
Andaka My main concern with seperating them out is that there are many "pet" or BYB bred dogs that carry the white gene and could produce white puppies from colored parents. Would they be regitered as GSD's or BBS's?
11-27-2012 02:04 PM
arycrest Thanks for the explanations White....

It will be interesting to see what happens ... hopefully it won't take another 40 years or so to get it resolved
11-26-2012 11:06 PM
Whiteshepherds
Quote:
Originally Posted by arycrest View Post
I guess I was thinking that if AWSA members are seeking to register their dogs as a new/different breed, then continuing to register them as GSDs isn't helping their cause.
Continuing to register the dogs as GSD's seems to bother some people more than others. It doesn't affect the process or lesson the chance that AWSA's goals will be met. It sometimes confuses the general public but once they understand the reasons behind it, it's usually not a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arycrest View Post
Of course if they were trying to convenience AKC to let the white be a variety it would be different (but it's my understanding, and I may be wrong, AKC no longer allows new varieties).
That's right, the AKC no longer allows new varieties. Petitioning the AKC to make an allowance and let the whites become a variety of GSD was something that might have worked given their unusual circumstances if it had been done before the BBS became a distinct breed. I think it would have been an excellant option for the breed and the whites if it had been done 20 years ago. Now it wouldn't make much sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arycrest View Post
Is there any chance that AKC would accept the BBS as a new breed?
First they would have to go into the Foundation Stock Service but yes, I do think that eventually the BBS will be a recognized breed in the AKC. AWSA has gotten past some major hurdles and will keep doing what it needs to do until it happens.
11-26-2012 11:14 AM
arycrest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds View Post
I wouldn't expect it to be any other way really. Pulling dogs out of the AKC (or CKC) isn't going to help breed recognition happen any sooner. AWSA is trying to work with the AKC, not against them. Jumping ship would make no sense. Why abandon a registry you're trying to work with?
Dual registrations are pretty common.
I guess I was thinking that if AWSA members are seeking to register their dogs as a new/different breed, then continuing to register them as GSDs isn't helping their cause. Of course if they were trying to convenience AKC to let the white be a variety it would be different (but it's my understanding, and I may be wrong, AKC no longer allows new varieties). Is there any chance that AKC would accept the BBS as a new breed?
11-26-2012 12:21 AM
Whiteshepherds
Quote:
Originally Posted by arycrest View Post
Regardless of what some people want regarding breed separation, the dogs are still GSDs!!! And I'm willing to bet that the majority of breeders who support breed separation breed dogs which are registered with AKC or CKC as GSDs (some may be dual registered as White Shepherds or German Shepherds with UKC).
I wouldn't expect it to be any other way really. Pulling dogs out of the AKC (or CKC) isn't going to help breed recognition happen any sooner. AWSA is trying to work with the AKC, not against them. Jumping ship would make no sense. Why abandon a registry you're trying to work with?
Dual registrations are pretty common.
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