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Thread: Von, vom and naming your kennel. Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-18-2014 06:49 PM
Ute [QUOTE=wolfstraum
I have now had several native speaking Germans tell me I should have used "vom" and others said "von" is right....[/QUOTE]

What a great name! Your informants' native speaker intuition was right on both counts because both options are the same and only differ in terms of whether a contraction is used (just like you can say is not OR isn't)
- von is right because it's "von dem Wolfstraum" [der Traum, masc noun changes to dem]
- vom is right because it's simply the contracted form of "Von dem Wolfstraum" [von+dem = vom]

The simple truth is there is just ONE "V" word and it is VON!
But it comes along in various combinations:
- von - by itself, e.g. with just a family name (no article)
- von + dem (= vom) as the contracted version with masculine nouns (i.e. 'von' is still hidden in there).
- von der / von den (where you can't contract with feminine or plural nouns following, otherwise you'd get von+der=*vonr or von+den = *vonn - which would be a bit like I am not = I amn't, )

In answer to Nasq's question therefore:

1) Kennel VOM/VON HAUS NASGUEWEITZ > Vom = von dem Haus

2) Kennel VOM/VON NASGUEWEITZ > Von = e.g. if Nasgueweitz is a family name

Clear as mud, isn't it?

Ute
07-18-2014 01:58 PM
wolfstraum I think this is as complicated as English!!!! My kennel name was done by a veterinarian friend from Germany....native speaker...we were going for an idea that followed suite of my horses names (Sheer Fantasy and Heir of Dreams - mother and daughter)....and wanted to incorporate "Wolf"....Fantasy was way too unwieldy, so we went with Dream...

I have now had several native speaking Germans tell me I should have used "vom" and others said "von" is right....

Lee
07-18-2014 12:20 PM
gre0481 Not too long ago I purchased an AKC/UKC American Eskimo Dog from Amar's Kennels.

Here's how we worked it out. The breeder required us to begin with Amar's.

The Sire is Amar's Dangerous Dan, The Dam SR Touching Fame. (or Touching Flame via AKC)

We named Kizzy , Amar's Dangerous Flame to honor her parents, and kennel.

In regards to your own kennel name. If you do have a full registration, and have a litter of pups that are either UKC or AKC, or Both (Or CKC, ETC) Then you would begin your own kennel.

In regards to being a registered breeder, breeder of merit, or other titles given by different clubs, that varys.

My breeder would only allow me full registration if I agreed to show my dog. Others offer limited (Like I'm working with now), for two years, and offer to switch to full if you meet the requirements of genetic screening for various defects. This breeder is concerned for the well being of the breed. No full registration if they do not meet health requirements.

I hope this comes in handy. I've been researching. Would like to breed eventually.

I currently have a 3 mos old GSD, but due to the breeder having complications getting the sire's papers; she will not be a breeding candidate.
07-16-2014 04:25 AM
Nasg Hi

I´ve read the entire thread, but my doubt persists

If I want to name my Kennel with my lastname

What would be right to use, von or vom?

1) Kennel VOM/VON HAUS NASGUEWEITZ

2) Kennel VOM/VON NASGUEWEITZ

in the two cases above, what should I use? VOM or VON?

I hope you guys can help me with this

Thanks a lot
.
04-28-2014 12:16 PM
Maeuselchen Hasenherz @SpookyShepherd: Sorry that din't answer your question at all.

since Hawkhurst is a given name it would be "Von Hawkhurst" if you want to translate it could be something like "Vom Habichtswäldchen"...the original hawkhurst sounds much more badass though.
04-28-2014 08:55 AM
Maeuselchen Hasenherz I'm not a liguist, but I'm a native speaker and this is how I would use it so that it doesn't sound „wrong“ in my ears.


„Vom“ is actually a combined word of „Von“ an the dativ article „dem“ for masculine or neutrum Nouns, so it means „of the“.
The question to ask to get the Dativ object in a sentence would be „wem“ or in old english „whom“.
„Wem gehört dieser Hund?“- „Das ist der Hund von dem Gärtner.“
„To whom does this dog belong?“ -“That's the dog of the Gardener.“
„Von wem stammt dieser Hund ab?“ -“Von dem Rüden da drüben.“
„whom does it come of?“ -“Of the male dog over there.“
the feminine form would be „Von der“ like the medieval poet Walther von der Vogelweide.


„Vom“ is also always specific while „von“ alone can als be inspecific.
„der Hund von dem Mädchen“ (The dog of that girl) is specific, while
„Der Hund von jemandem.“ „the dog of somebody“ doesn't tell us anything about the owner of the dogs except that he or she is owning a dog.


And then there is this thing with the given names. If the is a name after it, it is always von and not „vom“ or „von der“.
So it is „Von Schmied“ if the breeder's name is Schmied but it is „vom Schmied“ if the breeder's profession is being a smith.
That's why in kennel names „Von Waldhof“ (of Forest Farm) is right because it is the name of the farm where they breed as well as „Vom Waldhof“ (of the forest farm) hen the farm the kennel is located is actually in a forest.



*according to my dictionary "hurst" is a little forest. so it would be "Hag", "wald"/"Wäldchen" (little forest) or "Forst".
how ever i think that the "hurst" looks a lot like a "Horst" which is the nest of a bird of prey. and a Hawk/habicht is such bird, so that would fit to.
02-26-2014 10:56 AM
Maximilian SpookyShepherd,

I grew up speaking German and have worked professional jobs and lived in the US and Germany.

Resorting to the dictionary to sort this out won't give you the best answer. You want to express that your kennel is from Hawkhurst. The dictionary will give you von and aus as translations for from. You need to understand where to use each. If you're telling me where you live, or where you were originally from, you would use aus. For example, to say you come from Hawkhurst you would write "Ich komme aus Hawkhurst." However, in the title of a kennel you want to tell me where it is located so you use von.

To figure out whether you say von or vom you will need to know the gramatical gender of the noun it refers to. There is no rule in German that governs this although there are many patterns. Generally, nouns that refer to females are given the feminine gender die (for example die Frau). However, there are exceptions (for example, das Weib). If you study German you will simply need to remember the genders. For nouns that fall outside of the patterns you will not be able to guess, there simply is no rule for this in German. There isn't even a rule that governs the patterns, they are simply patterns.

However, you're luck in this case. You want to use a foreign word and in German most (but not all!) foreign words use the neuter gender das. Initially in German your kennel would be called "von dem Hawkhurst." However, German contracts von and dem to form vom. Therefore, the correct name of your kennel would be "vom Hawkhurst."

Hope this helps.
02-13-2014 04:50 PM
BoTaBe
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyShepherd View Post
It's a while still before breeding, but we're wanting to use Hawkhurst as the kennel name. Would that be a von or vom? I'm still rather turned around on what's correct... but would prefer to be accurate.

As a side note, Hawkhurst is the ancestral home of the landed "Maynard" family in Kent, England.
If it's supposed to be grammatically correct it'd have to be "aus Hawkkhurst" (if it refers to the village i just googled because I've never heard of it before ).
02-13-2014 03:26 PM
Liesje If it's not a German word, I'm not sure. "vom" would be my guess just based on how it sounds/feels to say, or maybe go by whatever gender is assigned to the German word for "hurst" (if there is one?).
02-13-2014 10:25 AM
SpookyShepherd It's a while still before breeding, but we're wanting to use Hawkhurst as the kennel name. Would that be a von or vom? I'm still rather turned around on what's correct... but would prefer to be accurate.

As a side note, Hawkhurst is the ancestral home of the landed "Maynard" family in Kent, England.
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