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Thread: Untitled parents? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
Yesterday 11:48 PM
QballK
Quote:
Also...I'm "wearing out" a $70,000 BMW driving back and forth to training, so do I win?
My wife spent my entire deployment money to drive to clubs and on her female Nala. I win!

And when I came home from deployment I totaled our Jeep and there was no money left to replace it. It's one of the reason why she quit with IPO. The money and time put into it, is not worth it. She bred two untitled dogs and the results are in the process of proving themselves in RH.

It's not like she doesn't want to do it. But like Lee said, not everyone has the means to do it. She's spent my entire deployment pay. That is a lot of money and it wasn't enough to title a dog. For that money she could have imported two titled dogs and we would have money left over.
Yesterday 02:44 PM
lhczth Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Maybe people should step back and reflect a bit and leave the personal stuff out of the posts.

Thank you,

ADMIN Lisa
Yesterday 02:11 PM
martemchik You guys take these things so personally as if we talk about your breeding program when we're answering to a general question. I could care less why you do or don't title your dogs, at the end of the day, I won't buy a puppy from a sire or a dam I haven't watched work anyways. The theoretical discussion should focus on the fact that the MAJORITY of breeders who breed untitled dogs are doing so without any prior titling experience and is a major indicator of BYB. If I see a pedigree with no titles for 2-3 generations, I'll assume BYB and I would not recommend a breeder like that. I'd also never recommend a breeder I don't personally know or have seen at least a few dogs worked out of that kennel. I'm also in the huge minority that does have access to seeing dogs get worked and understand what I'm seeing when I see a dog work...the majority of puppy buyers have no idea what they're looking for and even if they can watch a dog get worked, it means absolutely nothing to them.

I love how some of you love to call others out for "insults" when you do the same. Calling someone out for not being old enough to have spent enough time in the sport, is getting personal, and completely uncalled for. So when you do that, I'll call you out for something that I don't agree with, and really don't care how it makes you feel.

Breed whatever you want, whenever you want, it doesn't affect me or my dogs in any way. If one of those dogs ever makes it's way to my club, I'll give it a good, unbiased, assessment, but it will probably never happen so I couldn't care less about what your breeding decisions are.

Also...I'm "wearing out" a $70,000 BMW driving back and forth to training, so do I win?
Yesterday 01:58 PM
Unforgiving IPO isn't that big at all here, as in I'd guess over half the breeders arn't breeding titled dogs.

Vader's parents are not titled, but there is titles in the line mostly from when they were imported, and a majority of the dogs from the breeder end up as police service dogs and that anyway, so I more went with the breeders rep from people I know than any kind of titles.
Yesterday 12:03 PM
onyx'girl I agree that good clubs and helperwork is far and few between. And some breeders have families(or dogs they can't leave for whole days at a time), they can't just up and go train several hours away.
Those that have clubs/helpers within an hour(s) drive should count themselves blessed(as well as trials that are happening spring and fall without having to get a hotel room, go for a whole weekend)
Though, personally, I'd only buy a pup from an untitled dog if I knew the breeder was knowledgeable of the lines they were breeding and have produced well in the past, they also do train and represent....not a breeder just breeding to breed(or using a well known stud to market their pups).
Yesterday 11:31 AM
wolfstraum
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorDog View Post
I still don't get it. I also have a full time job and I'm in between finishing up my college degree with plenty of life drama and I still find time to train and title my dogs. And driving up to three hours in each direction for the work that they need, I might add.

I just don't understand the mentality that once you hit a certain "year mark" that you've done enough, and from that point on you don't have to follow the standards you once stuck by, or would expect someone else to.
Don't twist what I said. I never said I had done "enough" and was going to just go on breeding untitled dogs.

I spent over 12 years driving 600-800 miles a week to train. I wore out a $40,000 truck and a $50,000 truck doing it. I spent every waking moment that I was not working training or going to training....and more than every available dollar! I was nearly killed in a car wreck, am severely compromised and cannot physically handle that schedule - or a big strong male dog....I fall down. Flat. Alot. Not an "excuse" - a fact. I just gave away the best male I ever bred - two of them actually - so that they could be titled. Because I personally am unable to do the work. I have two females out on co-owns because of the lack of a helper that I can get to. I am ALWAYS looking for training opportunities...I have not just "quit" because I did it for 15 years.....I would love to be able to move somewhere that there was good training available - but that is not just done with a snap of the fingers either. Jobs, mortgages, commitments that keep someone in the same place....

I am not condoning breeders who breed generation after generation of untitled dogs either. I am saying that there are many reasons that someone may choose to breed an untitled dog and that the big picture is what counts. What I find worse is "breeders" who just go out and buy dogs that are titled, breed litter after litter, never or only rarely keeping or titling any of those themselves.

My point about the geography and availability of clubs, good helpers, and the drama and nonsense in clubs is indisputable. I know people who are 5 or 6 hours from a club...where it is impossible to go train - what they should starve to death because it would be a choice of buying food or gas to go train every week? I knew someone who was in that position at one point - she could not afford to even buy a $5 lunch at a trial....she slept in her truck at a trial.

If you can afford to do this and you are young and healthy and strong enough and have a good helper - then count your blessings, and be a bit more understanding of the big picture and of other people's situations.

Lee
Yesterday 11:16 AM
wolfstraum
Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
Nothing but excuses.

That is an insult and uncalled for.

How many dogs have you titled? How many have you bred that have been titled? How many next generation of your breeding are titled? How many from your lines have gone to high levels competitively?

Lee
Yesterday 10:34 AM
GatorDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstraum View Post
Look at the reality of IPO in this country. The VAST majority of people interested in IPO have NO WHERE to train - there are clusters of clubs throughout the US - there are more clubs in Germany in a country which is smaller than the state of Texas - than there are in the whole US. Not everyone is fortunate enough to live close to a club with a good helper/program, not everyone has the resources or is healthy enough to drive 400 miles a weekend to train....some people have "paid their dues" so to speak and due to life changes cannot continue to spend every waking moment and available dollar on training. Add that to the insane drama and nonsense so heavily prevalent in this sport and clubs, along with the lack of GOOD helpers. Spend another dozen years in the sport and you WILL understand.

Lee

I still don't get it. I also have a full time job and I'm in between finishing up my college degree with plenty of life drama and I still find time to train and title my dogs. And driving up to three hours in each direction for the work that they need, I might add.

I just don't understand the mentality that once you hit a certain "year mark" that you've done enough, and from that point on you don't have to follow the standards you once stuck by, or would expect someone else to.
Yesterday 10:24 AM
martemchik
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstraum View Post
Look at the reality of IPO in this country. The VAST majority of people interested in IPO have NO WHERE to train - there are clusters of clubs throughout the US - there are more clubs in Germany in a country which is smaller than the state of Texas - than there are in the whole US. Not everyone is fortunate enough to live close to a club with a good helper/program, not everyone has the resources or is healthy enough to drive 400 miles a weekend to train....some people have "paid their dues" so to speak and due to life changes cannot continue to spend every waking moment and available dollar on training. Add that to the insane drama and nonsense so heavily prevalent in this sport and clubs, along with the lack of GOOD helpers. Spend another dozen years in the sport and you WILL understand.

Lee
Nothing but excuses.
Yesterday 10:18 AM
wolfstraum
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorDog View Post
I'm sorry, but I can't really understand this. How can a breeder not have time to title a dog, but have the time to put into breeding/whelping/raising puppies? That concept will never make any sense to me.

Look at the reality of IPO in this country. The VAST majority of people interested in IPO have NO WHERE to train - there are clusters of clubs throughout the US - there are more clubs in Germany in a country which is smaller than the state of Texas - than there are in the whole US. Not everyone is fortunate enough to live close to a club with a good helper/program, not everyone has the resources or is healthy enough to drive 400 miles a weekend to train....some people have "paid their dues" so to speak and due to life changes cannot continue to spend every waking moment and available dollar on training. Add that to the insane drama and nonsense so heavily prevalent in this sport and clubs, along with the lack of GOOD helpers. Spend another dozen years in the sport and you WILL understand.

Lee
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