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Thread: working a dog in defense??? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-12-2014 09:18 PM
onyx'girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz&Anna View Post
You don't always question trainers in bitework, I'm new, and when I first started working Anna I had doubts about everything and wondered why they did anything they did, the only thing 2 trainers agree on is what the third one is doing wrong.... That being said this was just a question as to weather training this way was normal, I've never seen it before, buuuut like I said ^^^ I'm new to every bit of this


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Thus the reason to ask questions. You should try to understand the why's and what fors to be the best handler you can be. To trust the helper blindly can go really, really well, or bite bigtime.
To be fair to your dog, ask before the session begins, what you'll be working on, and communicate during the session if the plan changes up. Consistency with one helper is best when the dog and handler are learning.
07-12-2014 09:04 PM
Liz&Anna
Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Anna sounds like a good dog.
Thank you!!! She's a beast, she's getting stronger, and faster, every time she's worked. All the people from the clubs around me and the people who have seen her work say they can't wait to see how she matures.


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07-12-2014 09:02 PM
Liz&Anna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyndaara View Post
First of all--be careful what you ask for. Second, you don't like how someone is relating to your dog--stop it. Third, before you hand your dog over, make sure you know specifically what they intend to do with it and that you agree with it.

Terrasita
You don't always question trainers in bitework, I'm new, and when I first started working Anna I had doubts about everything and wondered why they did anything they did, the only thing 2 trainers agree on is what the third one is doing wrong.... That being said this was just a question as to weather training this way was normal, I've never seen it before, buuuut like I said ^^^ I'm new to every bit of this


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07-11-2014 07:50 AM
robk Anna sounds like a good dog.
07-11-2014 12:55 AM
Kyndaara First of all--be careful what you ask for. Second, you don't like how someone is relating to your dog--stop it. Third, before you hand your dog over, make sure you know specifically what they intend to do with it and that you agree with it.

Terrasita
07-10-2014 11:50 PM
Jarkko Just a general question: what's wrong in using whip? It's just used for making the dog focus on the helper, it's not hurting the dog or anything like that. Some helpers might of course do it (make the dog angry) without a whip, just by "being there", but in the end, what's the difference?

Some dogs have very high threshold for defence (they basically need a real threat until they learn "the game"), so they need to be pushed a little bit. For example, my dog is very hectic kind of dog, very high prey drive, mad for the sleeve. He really need to be switched to defence, because otherwise he basically trashes himself completely in a minute. Too much lactic acid, too much everything, not listening anymore, not learning anymore. It's not productive at all. With this very high threshold, he needs a "real" signal for switching to defence. And yes, that might involve whipping, how much, depends on the helper. But in the end, the goal is to switch him off the prey and in the end the "drive state" of the dog is the same, no matter how it was achieved.

This is not hurting, it's just to make the dog pissed off with a little bit of intimidating!

About the only bad thing about whip I can think of is the sound. Some dogs might get very reactive to the snapping sound.

Of course there is the question that is this kind of a dog (the kind that needs strong signals) suitable for the sport? I guess it would be better to have a dog that explodes easily to real aggression? Or is it so that dog who needs "whipping" is not really balanced and has too much prey drive?

For example, this puppy seems to be genetically very balanced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM-HAEZrhS8

LOL, that 18-weeks pup is much better in the sport than my 18-months old
07-02-2014 11:21 AM
Liz&Anna yes, a one time deal with this helper, although I think it stressed me more then her, she is my first working dog so every day I'm learning new things, so you can imagine my surprise to what was happening. I have a few friend who do IPO here where I live and they yelled at me and lectured me about the session when I told them what the helper did, which was really my reason for the post, wondering if this training method was normal. I feel like allot of dogs would shut down in a situation like this. My friend said "congratulations you may have just really messed up your puppy" (we had training with my normal guy yesterday and I can tell you she was not messed up in any way thank god)


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07-02-2014 10:16 AM
misslesleedavis1 Ty has a bark that sounds so very high pitched. I am actually surprised my manly looking dog can sound like that..

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07-02-2014 10:12 AM
lhczth Any helper that must attack a 10 month old puppy with a whip should have the whip taken out of their hand and beaten with it. It shows a total lack of talent.

Your dog is very young. I do not care for sleeve focused dogs so I tend to wait until they are mature enough to use all of their drives. LB has had only a few bites in her year of life. The genetics are there so we wait until the brain catches up.

Zetti, there aren't many out there with Anne's talent.
07-02-2014 08:57 AM
zetti I had a male once who would only work in defense in ScH. On his home turf, he had plenty of prey, but on the field, he was 100% defense, which is stressful for a dog. I was always amazed that our helper would trust him on long bites but he always hit the sleeve & stayed calm in the grip.

Only one helper was ever able to get any prey out of him in his life--Anne Kent, when she did a seminar at my place. And did she ever have to work for it, but she got it. That's skill.

I envied the people with the prey monkeys--less liability to worry about.

Eventually, I decided to take him out of ScH.
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