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|06-23-2014 01:31 PM|
Originally Posted by Pawsed View Post
|06-23-2014 09:04 AM|
LeoRose, thanks for the clarification on those rules.
It's easy to be judgemental when you don't understand the situation. Those horses are working animals, not pets or companions, who have no value whatsoever to their owners without papers. Why else would they be willing to purchase papers separately? Most are non-breeding animals that wouldn't be able to do what their owners want without the papers. Without papers these horses are Alpo, pure and simple.
Sorry, but I'm not willing to sacrifice perfectly healthy wonderful animals that way. So, yes, I guess I am part of the problem.
|06-22-2014 09:43 PM|
I just wanted the actual rule about selling papers.
Was telling someone that it was against AKC rules and they said they had never heard of that. "everyone does it" kind of thing
|06-22-2014 08:56 PM|
I can see a pick of the litter puppy going for a little bit more $, but like Selzer said; "judge the litter owner," if they cheat, then the red flag waved in your face.
OT: An old guy on a motorcycle deal, the guy was 80+ wanted to forge a signature on a pink slip, I said, your a good guy, but a horrible business man, you should have paid the fees and the transfer 12 years ago, bye bye !
Yeah, I wanted that bike..
|06-22-2014 08:15 PM|
Pawsed, charging one price ($200) for a puppy without papers, and charging a higher price ($400) for the same puppy with papers is considered "selling the papers". The seller is charging an additional $200 for the papers, which is against AKC policy. It's not against policy to sell a "pet" puppy with Limited Registration for less than a "show" puppy on Full Registration, as long as the proper papers are included in price.
At one time, selling registration applications (known then as "blue slips", because of their color) was a fairly common puppymill practice. Breeders would send in litter registrations for more puppies than there actually were (or sometimes registered nonexistent litters), and either sold the extras (called "blue money") or else used them to "register" a dog they acquired without papers. Fraud like this is why the AKC developed their Frequently Used Sires program, in which a dog that sires more than three liters a year, or more than seven litters in his lifetime MUST be DNA profiled. All imported dogs must be DNA profiled, also.
And if you know about the irregularity with the horses' papers, and haven't reported it to the appropriate registry, then you are technically an accessory to the fact, and therefor part of the problem.
|06-22-2014 08:03 PM|
that's what I was thinking LeoRose.
They have obviously registered the litter. Same puppy but if you don't want the registration papers I'll give her to you for $200. If you want the AKC papers, it will be $400.
|06-22-2014 04:20 PM|
I don't see this as selling papers. I think selling papers is just that, selling the papers without a dog being involved in the transaction.
I know of horses who are registered with papers that were issued to a horse who is now dead, some of which are stallions used for breeding. Obviously, the bloodline would not necessarily be the same. Those papers were bought separately from the horses. I don't see why it wouldn't happen with dogs, too.
|06-22-2014 11:37 AM|
Unethical. I'm also stuck on 200 vs 400. That's some great blood there I tell ya.
My last puppy, her papers came attached to her shipping crate. Filled out and it was my option to file them at 8 weeks.
Otto's breeder wanted a copy of his neuter certificate then she filed them for me.
|06-22-2014 11:12 AM|
Nope. It is against AKC policies to sell registration papers, which is what "$XXX without papers, $YYY with papers" amounts to.
From the AKC Discipline Guidelines (Effective 12-11-13)
VI. Registration Violations (All Privileges)
a. Submission of a false application to register or transfer (not signature forgeries), which affect the Stud Book * 3 yr/$500 5 yr/$1000 Life/$5000
b. Selling or buying AKC registration papers * 5 yr/$500 10 yr/$1000 Life/$5000
c. Refusing to produce dogs or records * 6 mon/$500 5yr‡/$1000 Life‡/$3000
|06-19-2014 12:37 PM|
I think a breeder can sell puppies for whatever they want, with or without papers. It's what the buyer will pay more then what the breeder wants to sell them for.
Info may be in one of these links ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...ind-puppy.html
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