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Thread: First walk Without Leash!! Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-02-2014 01:11 PM
boomer11 The Ecollar isn't really used as a fail safe if you're stimming a couple of times during the walk. It's used to correct the dog
06-02-2014 12:33 PM
DJEtzel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioflyer View Post
Can you elaborate on some of your experiences?

We avoid engaging Kiyah when she's in this Anxious state. We will typically activate use e-collar on the second "no" command (waiting to see if she responds to the verbal command on her own) Once she stops vocalizing, we will wait until she relaxes to praise her for calming down. She is learning but it is a slow process.

I've noticed with off-leash stay/recall commands, she is not comfortable waiting. I will tell her to stay walk away about 20 feet and call to her. The entire time she is VERY focused on me almost to the point of obsession. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or of it's too anxious.
I would start with crate games - it sounds like her biggest problem is impulse control - which is also my male's problem.

With stay exercises, I would not be calling her out of her stay - that is probably going to make it worse. I would go back to her, reward, and release at the dog, in heel position or front. Start easy, if she is breaking, you need to decrease one of the Ds (distraction, distance, duration).

For crate anxiety, ignoring them is the easiest way to go. The quickest? Not always, but I am not comfortable potentially causing my dog more worry in the crate and making it an unpleasant experience. I don't give my dog any attention in his crate or start to open it until he is sitting and relatively quiet. I start to open the door and he moves? It gets slammed in his face and we start over. He learns on his own that the only way he gets rewarded (to come out and see me) is by being calm. Otherwise I wait him out. Sometimes I turn around and leave the room entirely. Sometimes I walk in while he's quiet and shower him with treats, then leave again.
06-02-2014 12:13 PM
Radioflyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJEtzel View Post
Not by rewarding the dog while it was being anxious. Not by correcting the dog.

I've "cured" separation anxiety in my older GSD by setting him up to succeed and using positive reinforcement, crate, games, etc. and management techniques to lessen the anxiety.

Can you elaborate on some of your experiences?

We avoid engaging Kiyah when she's in this Anxious state. We will typically activate use e-collar on the second "no" command (waiting to see if she responds to the verbal command on her own) Once she stops vocalizing, we will wait until she relaxes to praise her for calming down. She is learning but it is a slow process.

I've noticed with off-leash stay/recall commands, she is not comfortable waiting. I will tell her to stay walk away about 20 feet and call to her. The entire time she is VERY focused on me almost to the point of obsession. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or of it's too anxious.
06-02-2014 12:03 PM
DJEtzel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioflyer View Post
How would you handle the separation anxiety?
Not by rewarding the dog while it was being anxious. Not by correcting the dog.

I've "cured" separation anxiety in my older GSD by setting him up to succeed and using positive reinforcement, crate, games, etc. and management techniques to lessen the anxiety. I've coached numerous clients through success in fixing anxiety and I'm working on it right now with my 7 month old GSD. They're very prone to it, and I'm not going to say you shouldn't be using aversives - I know that the same results can be achieved without them, but if you are using them correctly it is none of my business - I just worry that if you had bad timing with R+ that you may be having bad timing with +P

I *am* glad that you are having fun with your gal off leash. There's nothing I love more than being able to take my dogs out and do things sans leash.

This is my boy, 7 mos old, off leash at a rest stop along the highway last week on our long car trip to Indianapolis to visit my fiancÚ. (I just use lots of engagement training and positive reinforcement to keep him around. There were kids, people, etc. just feet from us as we practiced platz and impulse control for the Frisbee.)

Patton rest stop by DJetzel, on Flickr
06-02-2014 11:40 AM
Radioflyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJEtzel View Post
This sounds like improper use of positive reinforcement to me, and timing. Makes me worry about how you'd be using an e collar.
How would you handle the separation anxiety?
06-02-2014 11:01 AM
DJEtzel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioflyer View Post
Thank you.

Originally, we encountered an issue with Kiyah having separation anxiety (it still exists but not as much) When Kiyah was in her crate, any time a person would open a door to leave or come inside, she would come unglued barking in a VERY high pitch as if she were screaming in pain. Normally my wife and I would be able to work with her on this, but we also have a 4 month old baby in the house and Kiyah's barking will wake her up even if the baby is in another room with the door closed.

My wife and I agree that this behavior is good for a dog to announce someone entering, but it needs to also have an "off-switch" to let Kiyah know that the person leaving is okay and a person entering has been approved. Attempts to train without the e-collar seem to only reward Kiyah's behavior with the presence of her people (she sees this as a reward) The E-collar gives use the ability to correct the behavior without approaching the crate which previously added to the anxiety.
This sounds like improper use of positive reinforcement to me, and timing. Makes me worry about how you'd be using an e collar.
06-02-2014 11:00 AM
MaggieRoseLee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioflyer View Post
The E-collar is primarily a fail-safe in case something abnormal happens that causes her to get obsessive. Our neighborhood has a lot of traffic, stray cats and the occasional stray dog. I have no doubt that in the next few months the e-collar will not be needed.
That's why I love and use the e-collar too. Though hopefully you aren't using it as a punishment and instead to continue to TRAIN a reliable come. There is a vast difference in the methods of training as well as the outcome.

This is my preferred training method for the 'come' and the e-collar: Teach the Recall (page 2)

So do not use the ecollar to PUNISH when they don't listen (come come come come WHAMMO is wrong). Instead you teach them to listen and 'beat' the stimulation by turning and coming BEFORE you have to activate the collar.
06-02-2014 10:49 AM
Radioflyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by jafo220 View Post
Not so good advice.

If the e-collar is working, use it. If you feel you can find a better way then find it. In the end it's a personal choice that shouldn't be decided on a freakin message board by someone people don't know from, adam. People around here lately can't help but show they can do it better for less on their ego trips.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Thank you.

Originally, we encountered an issue with Kiyah having separation anxiety (it still exists but not as much) When Kiyah was in her crate, any time a person would open a door to leave or come inside, she would come unglued barking in a VERY high pitch as if she were screaming in pain. Normally my wife and I would be able to work with her on this, but we also have a 4 month old baby in the house and Kiyah's barking will wake her up even if the baby is in another room with the door closed.

My wife and I agree that this behavior is good for a dog to announce someone entering, but it needs to also have an "off-switch" to let Kiyah know that the person leaving is okay and a person entering has been approved. Attempts to train without the e-collar seem to only reward Kiyah's behavior with the presence of her people (she sees this as a reward) The E-collar gives use the ability to correct the behavior without approaching the crate which previously added to the anxiety.
06-02-2014 10:43 AM
sit,stay I don't think I would have a "skittish" dog off leash where she might spook at something and bolt. She could be a couple of blocks away before you even remembered you had the e-collar control.
Sheilah
06-02-2014 10:41 AM
jafo220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioflyer View Post
A couple of days ago, I took my 8.5 month old Shiloh Shepard "Kiyah" on a walk and while in a undeveloped area of our subdivision, I decided to work on some off-leash training. She did so well on recall and stay commands, I decided to finish the walk off-leash. The rest of the walk went very well. She is normally skiddish of cars passing or cyclists, but didn't seem concerned on the rest of the walk.

I took another walk with her the same day to make sure it wasn't a fluke and sure enough, she behaved admirably. This included encountering a neighbor with a lost-dog on leash looking for it's owner.

note: I keep a leash on hand just in case and I use an E-collar on her as a correction tool. She still need a little help on occasion with the E-collar when she gets too distracted, but does well overall.

Here is Kiyah at the local park on walk #3 without leash as we were learning obstacles:

I am happy your making progress. Good for you.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
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