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Thread: Which Drago breeding to pick? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-13-2014 02:02 PM
robk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmoore728 View Post
I wish I could comprehend this conversation. I'm borderline terrified thinking about my next future GSD purchase after reading this post. I have much more to learn...

How hard is it to find that "real" GSD with balanced drives and great nerves? I'm not worried about scoring points.
Oh, it's not as hard as some people on this forum would make you think.
05-13-2014 08:41 AM
Jmoore728 I wish I could comprehend this conversation. I'm borderline terrified thinking about my next future GSD purchase after reading this post. I have much more to learn...

How hard is it to find that "real" GSD with balanced drives and great nerves? I'm not worried about scoring points.
05-13-2014 05:22 AM
björn It depends on the person, but actual protectiontraining with a decoy isn´t started before the dog is more mature and you have a good controll and communication with the dog in general, there is many other things you can do untill then adapted to the age of the dog like basic nosework and obedience, speaking from the traditional working program in sweden but it goes for many doing IPO also I suppose. Maybe the difference is there are more clubs and people to train with, so there is more solutions and knowledge if a person has some form of problem in the training. I guess in US it´s more problematic to even find a training group not too far away, and I suppose it´s not always certain it´s the best guys to train with.
05-12-2014 08:56 AM
carmspack bjorn , I wonder if you could tell us a bit about the typical raising experience of young pup - young dog and introduction to sport in your country . Typical if there is such a thing.

I think some dogs you see in sport "here" in North America are not seen at the best of their potential . There is such an urgency to get the young dog to the club and start the training , often focusing on the decoy portion , before the dog is ready. I think a lot of dogs are ruined.
This is where knowing the lines is important , how they mature.
Dog is not generic , one size fits all .
If the dog has "it" , really and truly, everything should be available to work with when the dog is a year or older . If not , then you start to recognize that what you are working with is conditioning rather than the genetics.
05-12-2014 08:36 AM
björn Maybe uno and etzel produced better then than major and boomer, bringing hardness and character is more the way breeders seems to promote the studs/grandsons I´v seen from uno or etzel, like this uno son also in denmark, haven´t seen all of course
05-11-2014 07:42 PM
lhczth Maybe a dog that produced well when crossed with a female that brought hardness (like Cinto's dam). I just didn't see this over here coming from Major or Boomer specifically. We don't get to see as many dogs as one might in Europe, but when I see the same trait fairly consistently I tend to avoid those dogs.
05-11-2014 07:02 PM
björn
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
björn, I have just never cared for the dogs I have seen coming from those dogs. Extreme handler sensitivity and a lack of overall hardness. Just not my type of dogs. May be fine for others and I know those lines are showing up more in the sport type pedigrees. Major Phönix did seem to bring a more "correct" structure (depending on what one considers "correct").
The studs from uno och etzel Im aware of is quite the opposite of handler sensitive and sporty, more praised for their hardness and strong character, like this dog that have had some nice offspring in sweden and denmark,
Cinto Von Ungalant
05-11-2014 12:33 PM
lsatov Well Carmen that is not quite true Carmspack Journey has her IPO1 with a 90 in tracking.

I worked with an indivivudal who certifies handler and dogs for bomb narcotic and sar and does much work in foreign country's. He would not train with me until he did and evaluation. If the dog does not have it, waste of time. Now he is 75 years old and is head space is yes you can train a dog that is not optimal but they are not reliable. If the conditions are not good do not know what you will get and in working dogs this is not acceptable in his eyes.
Journey passed his evaluation infact he said it is a shame I am doing IPO and not challenging her true ability. Our track was mostly under water she did not have an issue, infact her last article had sunk by the end of the third leg, should have used wood but she found it.
Journey tracks through bees nesting in in the ground she tracks to track, the reward is the find. She was very easy to teach. Sid had me doing IPO3 tracks before we trialed for IPO 1. It took us 6-8/52 to do this.
Many others tracking failed bcause of the water.
05-11-2014 11:53 AM
wolfstraum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandal View Post

One last comment. People should consider what their skill set is when buying certain dogs. Also, who they have to help them train. This is, after all, a team sport. Many people don't seem to factor that in, only to be frustrated with their choice of dogs. While great helper work makes all the difference for every dog, some dogs can handle work that is less skilled, better than others.


Probably the most important statement made here in forever!

Lee
05-11-2014 11:33 AM
Vandal Regarding the comments about Drago in the video.
There is no way to tell for sure, without seeing and working the dog, what is going on there. I watched the LGA video when it was posted a couple of years ago. At the time, I thought maybe Drago was sick during that trial because he looked so exhausted. I just watched a training video of obedience where he is very amped up, talkative the entire session and after 30 seconds or so, the tongue is really hanging out, like he just ran six miles.

I started thinking about a dog I worked a few years back who would get exhausted like that during protection. Within 15 to 20 seconds in front of the helper, he would be completely exhausted... bloodshot eyes and no bark...just bouncing with a kind of "woo woo" in place of a bark. Not exactly the same look as Drago but similar enough to make me wonder.

The people training the dog I just mentioned, tried to get a bark using electric, (collars and prods), water in his face, whiffle bats...you name it, they tried it, resulting in making matters worse. When he came here, I worked him more in a way to bring out who he really was. The difference in that dog was stunning. He went from no bark, exhaustion and those terrible bloodshot eyes after 15 seconds, to barking like a real dog, in over 100 degree temperatures, for extended periods of time.

Anymore, trainers seem to be trying to fit the dog into their training method, no matter what the dog is trying to tell them. The dog I just mentioned had been trained completely wrong for who that dog was. He was quite a serious dog in protection, who's primary drive was not prey or play, (even though he has tons of prey drive). That was the way they tried to train him however, creating a significant conflict for the dog.
So much so, the stress of it all was shutting him down. Yes, I complain quite a bit about what is happening here with the "new methods". The dogs, as basic creatures, are still the same. Meaning, you have to work who the dog is. Some people seem incapable of understanding that and create a huge mess with a dog who might otherwise be a very good one. This happens when people try to work their own dog in protection as well. Again, some dogs just don't play and when you try, it all goes down the drain.

Anyway, that MIGHT be the part of the confusion here between how he is described and what he shows on video. Having said that, I owned an Aron son and a Bandit son and worked direct decendants of the dogs further back in the pedigree. I have a pretty good idea what is coming thru those bloodlines and others in his pedigree. As most here are saying, the female will really matter and I doubt a forum is the ideal place to determine that.

If it were me, I would call Gary and get his opinion. He owns the dog, he knows dogs, (since he has been in GSDs, Police and SchH training forever), and will more than likely have the best answer.

One last comment. People should consider what their skill set is when buying certain dogs. Also, who they have to help them train. This is, after all, a team sport. Many people don't seem to factor that in, only to be frustrated with their choice of dogs. While great helper work makes all the difference for every dog, some dogs can handle work that is less skilled, better than others.
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