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  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-21-2014 01:18 PM
Gwenhwyfair Sounds like an appropriate outcome to me, officer and dog getting more training means acknowledgement there's a need for improvement. IMHO given what is known, sounds like a proportional response.
05-21-2014 12:07 PM
Baillif Pain elicited agression that became operant agression. Should have cracked the dog over the head the first time they saw it and it would never have been an issue again.
05-21-2014 12:03 PM
Slamdunc Are the Dog Whisperer's methods harmful ? - YouTube

Just to put things in perspective.
05-21-2014 11:43 AM
Slamdunc Dog Whisperer S4 Epi-18 part 1 - YouTube

Far worse and is just one example of Cesar hanging a dog. Completely unnecessary! There are far better ways to deal with a dog than what was done here. But, most people will think that this calm, submissive dog is appropriate. Poor handling by the owners created this behavior and the dog pays for it. There are plenty of videos of Cesar doing this to dogs to create that beaten down, squashed, fearful, pure avoidance, given up, nearly asphyxiated, gassed out and forced into submission dog. Ohhh, I mean calm, submissive, laying on the ground accepting that harsh treatment. But hey' everyone loves Ceasr and his techniques. Primarily, because the vast majority of dog owners have no clue what is going on, what the dog is going through or what just happened. Those that can see through the editing of his show and have worked with dogs know the difference.
05-20-2014 05:10 PM
selzer I am glad they will get more training. But, I am also glad that they are going back to work. This was not a vicious attack by the handler on the dog. There are far worse abuses going on amongst dog trainers, and I think that the yayhoo that recorded it kind of heightened the whole thing by his commentary. It wasn't that freaky, and the public needn't get all hot and bothered how a tough dog is handled.

These dogs are tough. They are expected to continue working even when they are punched or kicked or even shot. They are not made out of glass. Do you think a several hundred pound ram might not pummel a dog? They are tough dogs, they need to be.

And in the middle of an arrest, the dog needs to be on task, because the officer needs to back up the other officer, not fight with his dog. Certainly, when we see clear cruelty going on, we should ensure that someone is aware of it, like the cop that shot the vagrants' dog. At some point though, these guys have to do their job. And they shouldn't have to be constantly concerned that someone is going to cry foul, every time they say boo to their dogs.
05-20-2014 10:12 AM
Originally Posted by LaRen616 View Post
My GSD is submissive but my Dal is more dominant.[/FONT]

If you have to choke, hang or hit your dog for it to release a ball then something isn't right.
It's usually pretty easy to get a toy away from a submissive or moderately dominant dog. It's quite another to get it away from a very dominant dog, especially if force has been used in the past to get this. There are better ways to start with, but that's another discussion.

"Hanging" is a self defensive move for when a dog attacks the handler. It sometimes happens with new dogs that are very dominant before the handler has established a good relationship with the dog. There are some breeds and some lines that this is more common with. It allows the handler to stop the attack without hurting the dog. It's not a training technique.

"Hitting" a dog is an old school method of getting them to release something that they don't want to let go of. I think that there are better ways of doing this.

"Choking" is a misnomer as the technique is properly done. "Coughing" is more accurate. By applying pressure to the dog's neck you make him cough. When he does, he opens his mouth, some a lot, some a little, so that you can take away whatever is in his mouth. The dog should not be "choked" into unconsciousness, that's part of hanging, not training. Some trainers like to hold onto the dog's collar and push the object into his mouth (or the dog into the object), also making him cough, giving the same result.

There are plenty of way to get dogs to release objects, or bites, but many of them use toys or some other form of handler supplied rewards and are, IMO unsuitable for dogs that bite for real, such as LE, PP or military K−9's, but that too, is another discussion.
05-20-2014 09:08 AM
Originally Posted by deacon View Post
And your dogs are probably not dominant or alpha males either.
My GSD is submissive but my Dal is more dominant.

If you have to choke, hang or hit your dog for it to release a ball then something isn't right.
05-20-2014 09:03 AM
deacon And your dogs are probably not dominant or alpha males either.
05-20-2014 08:41 AM
Originally Posted by llombardo View Post
I have seen far worse abuse. I didn't think I seen abuse when I seen this video, just incompetence.
I have seen far worse abuse too but IMO this is still considered abuse. I don't care if he is a K9 cop or not, hanging the dog and whacking at it is abuse IMO.

Originally Posted by LouCastle View Post
First is the fact that this country is going down the toilet due to the emphasis placed on political correctness of wannabe−do−gooders of all kinds. From banning big sodas to keeping speakers from college campuses, the place is going off the rails. Anything but feeding a dog a treat, is abuse to some of them. Mostly they have no idea how to get a dog to do anything unless they have a treat in their hands. I'm not talking about so−called PP trainers, just the pet owners who think their dogs are little furry children.
Yes, my dogs are my furry children but I still treat them like dogs. They are very well behaved and they are trained, I can take them anywhere and know that they will behave. I have worked really hard with my dogs, my dogs rarely ever get treats, they do commands without a food reward.

I train and get things done without having to hang, choke or hit my dogs.
05-20-2014 08:18 AM
Originally Posted by LaRen616 View Post
I just heard on the news this morning that the officer is going back to work with that dog, they said he was not doing anything wrong and that he was using the proper techniques on the dog but they want him to go to some more training.
A trainer also evaluated the situation. The dog and handler both need more training. The dog wanted to keep playing with the ball and the officer had to get to the other officer to assist in the arrest. Was it handled wrong, yes. Will it get fixed, hopefully. I have seen far worse abuse. I didn't think I seen abuse when I seen this video, just incompetence.
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