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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-26-2014 11:26 AM
HuskyMal89 I agree with MilesNY 100% in the fact that one the female has a huge role in determining the the temperament of the pup (was thinking these things after I posted my comment). Two, a female would be your best bet in most cases with this type of dog for agility because a male would only be more headstrong and harder to train to a high level for someone without experience. Three, a male would almost certainly be 90 pounds or a bit more....a lot of dog for agility and most likely not agile enough even though he may be big, strong and athletic. If you wanna get into to PSA or IPO it sounds like from MilesNY experience this is a stud you'd want as long as the litter was well matched up with a good balance in the female he was paired with. Good luck on your search once again!
04-26-2014 11:01 AM
MilesNY Hi Alex, I have a Drago baby. I do IPO and agility with her. With Drago, you need to look at the female he is bred to not just him. He does lay his stamp on all the pups from him I have seen but intensity depends on the bitch as well. I could not do bite work with Khaleesi as long as I did some work with her. She is bordering on insane when working, but sleeps in my bed and cuddles on the couch at home. I just stress that even without bite work her prey drive and intensity would make her a challenge to work if you are not experienced. Size wise he does throw big dogs, but Khaleesi is extremely athletic. K is about 60-65 lbs but really long legs, and she is just over a year so will probably fill out to seventy.

Temperament wise, and again the bitch plays into this, but K is very very stable. She will work anywhere, nothing bothers her, she isn't reactive to dogs and people. She was a handful as a puppy though... More than I have ever seen in any dog and I have been around for a bit. If you are think of only doing clicker work and such you may want to reconsider. I start out all my pups with only positive methods and I intended to with khaleesi as well. That being said, she needed firm life rules in place for everyone's safety. If her prey drive kicked off she would bite whatever she could get in her mouth and wouldn't let it go. This was at 12 weeks. We put a firm stop to that and she didn't do it again. It was not something I ever thought I would see in a tiny pup. I have heard of others having similar issues if b boundaries are not established young. That being said she is not a hard dog, she is very responsive to training. I used all clicker work with her and then just other things for life behaviors. She is a great dog, hope this helps, good luck on

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04-26-2014 04:30 AM
HuskyMal89 OT....I like Brisco vom Patriot better myself haha. No relation to Drago but same breeder. He is overseas and not in the states like Drago is. Good luck in your search!! If you end up with a pup that looks like either Brisco or Drago you won't be let down . Their working ability is also pretty good to ha. Big bodied dogs for agility though..
04-25-2014 08:43 AM
Liesje Sure I'll just describe my experience. I think as far as initial barrier, I agree.

Around me, there are 4-5 different places I could take Beginner Agility within a 45 minute drive (not saying they are all the same quality...). There are agility trials within 20 minute drive probably 6-8 times a year. There is not a single Schutzhund club within an hour's radius. A little farther than that and I have 2 choices. 2-3 hour drive (one way) and I've got 4-5 choices. Of these clubs, I only know of 3 that actually hold a trial at least once a year.

Both Schutzhund and agility have difficulties due to resources which is the #1 reason I am currently not actively doing either. Schutzhund would require a 2-3 hour drive one way to be a member of the club of my choice. I cannot do anything in protection without access to a helper, which would only be 2-3 times a month at most. The club trains on a weeknight as well but due to distance, I wouldn't get there until 9PM which is worthless. Obedience I can pretty much train on my own, but tracking requires access to decent land 4-6 times a week if you want to actually make progress and title (not talking about winning big trials). Agility I can do much closer to home and requires less space but has more complex equipment requirements. Then I'm paying for floor rentals so I have access to what I need. Also when I did SchH I would train obedience during the week with a few friends and we'd help each other. With agility I find that I really need my instructor there helping or watching video footage. It's just so much more complex than a Schutzhund track or obedience routine, which in Schutzhund really is a *routine*.

The training itself.... both complex in different ways. I've use a lot of my SchH knowledge in agility and vice-versa. Watching most SchH people train their dogs to jump the 1m is often painful for me, lol. Just a little bit of agility foundation and the dog can easily clear the jump both ways from lying on his stomach. It's hardly even worth hashing out all the differences because obviously they are very different sports, but both require a commitment to training on your own, not just showing up at class or at the club once or twice a week and expecting to make great progress.

Right now I'm not doing either b/c of time and cost. My older dog is finishing conformation and lure coursing next month, so that will hopefully free up some time and $$$ so I can get back into agility. I've got two friends (one is my instructor) that both want to run my dog in trials and I'm seriously considering this. Before, I was very adamant about me, the owner, doing all the training and handling myself. However if I may say so, my dog has real potential for agility and I'm not a very natural handler. I tend to overthink things and get lost on the course easily. When my dog runs with someone else he looks brilliant. So my instructor wants to play around with some of us running each others' dogs. My puppy is just 6 months and I'm letting him mature a bit before I take him to SchH club. I will be doing tracking with him starting this weekend and then start more formal SchH obedience later this summer. Right now all three of my dogs do flyball since it's close by, easy to train at home in the small spaces I have (and I often get together with friends to do drills), plenty of tournaments (I can compete once a month if I'm able to make every tournament), the dogs love it, the club dues and tournament fees are a fraction of Schutzhund or agility.
04-24-2014 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I've trained and titled multiple dogs in both agility and Schutzhund (though not at high levels) and I would agree with the others that agility is not any less complex, less precise, or less demanding than Schutzhund.
Can you tell me more? I don't want this to devolve into a debate about Agility vs. Schutzhund, because that's not what I intended, it just seemed like Agility had less of an initial barrier to entry than Schutzhund. I may be wrong, and I'm happy to learn more! My misconceptions can be cleared up pretty quickly!
04-24-2014 09:30 PM
Liesje I've trained and titled multiple dogs in both agility and Schutzhund (though not at high levels) and I would agree with the others that agility is not any less complex, less precise, or less demanding than Schutzhund.
04-24-2014 09:30 PM
onyx'girl If I were you, I'd be hitting some clubs/venues that train in the sport that interest me and go from there. Chat with handlers and look at dogs.

There are dogs that are eye candy, but they may not be the right dog for the sport or venue we choose. Best to see some dogs and learn more about what is involved, schutzhund may be something you get addicted to...or herding, you never know until you get out and watch/observe/experience what is going on.
04-24-2014 09:19 PM
AlexRD Merciel and Jocoyn, thanks a ton for those messages. I agree entirely. I've been reading a ton and plan on seeing a few trials to see how it goes.

This is pretty much what I expect to happen for a looooong time if I do get into agility training, but the dog looks like he's having fun and it's a way to get us both competitive in one activity.

So basically I want an activity that I can compete in with my dog, that we'd both have fun in. Schutzhund seems more complicated to *train* for, due to the different testing and tools required. That might be a misconception on my end, and be a wrong opinion, but someone else with experience in both enlightening me would be much appreciated!

Edit: Now if my dog is good at it, and I can learn fast enough to get good at training it, I would like to compete. I'm a competitive guy by heart, so that's something...
04-24-2014 03:29 PM
Merciel I am really not the best person to go in-depth about agility. I did some foundational classes, and I have a lot of friends who compete actively, but I never made it to actual competition myself because my Akita mix Crookytail is (alas) enthusiastic and willing but not smart enough for the sport.

There are a fair number of people on this board who are seriously into it, though, and they would be much better to ask.

All I can really tell you is that the handling skills necessary to compete at any quasi-serious level in agility are pretty technically demanding, and doing them at speed on the course is very challenging. I'm a decent enough Rally/obedience handler, but agility handling is totally alien to the way I would normally move my body, and I would have had to work pretty darn hard to get good at it. It's not easy on any level.

It's also (in my opinion) not a sport to which GSDs are ideally suited. Hardcore agility dogs tend to be significantly smaller and lighter-boned.

I certainly don't want to discourage you from trying it -- agility is a great sport, tons of fun, wonderful for building your handling skills and relationship with your dog -- and it is certainly possible to achieve advanced titles and championships with a GSD.

But if you're drawn to the sport because you think it's going to be easier to learn, well, that is probably a misconception.
04-24-2014 03:25 PM
NancyJ I would also consider this. If you really think you may want to dive deeply into some activity, go there first BEFORE you get the dog and see if it is what you think it is, if the people are a fit for your personality and it looks like fun. Ask if you can watch, maybe even help out in some way. Get to know the other folks.

Frequently we see people "getting a dog for Search and Rescue" from breeders who know just what to sell them but unfortunately have not worked dogs in that discipline and really don't know.....the ones who do know are going to be skeptical of selling a dog for that purpose if they don't have a good assurance it is going to happen. So we tell people wait to get a dog until you are involved with the team.

I imagine that could be true of any sport. Nothing like really getting into something and finding out you have the great pet who does not have the true genetic potential to rise to the top in THAT discipline. Now if you just want to clunk around and have a little fun, I don't think it matters. Go for the best pet you can find...healthy, attractive, calm temperament, moderate drives etc. and then have some fun.
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