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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-24-2014 10:23 PM
selzer I actually agree that your dogs ARE puppies. They are beyond the most beneficial socialization stage, but they have not reached their adult temperament yet.

I also do believe that dogs are like wine, they do get better with age, to a point. They can also get worse in some ways. For example, as our dogs age, they lose some of the puppy-rambunctiousness, and they will become in most instances less concerned or excited by ordinary occurrences, and by living with them for longer and longer, we learn their limits and to trust them within those limits, and they learn some limits and to accept guidance within those limits. For this reason, we can be more relaxed with our four year old dog, than we were with our ten month old dog. And our 8.5 year old dog, well she has reached darn close to perfection. Not because she is perfect, but because we no her inside and out, and she is comfortable with us in all circumstances, and thus we have a working bond.

But, if we allow dogs to live in behaviors that are not desirable. To continue with them, many of which are self-rewarding, they will not improve, and most likely they will escalate. If a dog is out of control at 10 months, and nothing is done to change that, the dog is going to be out of control at 14 months, and 24 months, and 48 months -- if he survives that long.

Out of control dogs tend to have a much higher rate of being put down, than dogs who are under control. Under control does not mean chronically submissive and lacking in spirit. Nothing can be further from the truth. Yes, some people abuse dogs until they are worms. That is sad. But people who TRAIN their dogs are actually helping a dog reach its potential. They engage the dog, challenge the dog, amuse the dog, exercise the dog mental capacity and thus increase it. And if done properly, the dog love it and thrives, and the spirit of the dog is alive and healthier than ever.

A child living without discipline, is an unhappy child. A child that does not have limits, is adrift in the world and constantly on edge. It is not so different for dogs. Dogs are a critter that has the emotional span and mentality similar in ways to young children. The are the most relaxed in situations where they have clear boundaries, understand the rules, and trust their leader. This does not come from letting dogs be dogs in a dog park. It comes from consistent leadership, good management, and regular training.
03-23-2014 05:57 PM
Chip18 Also going to add that I'm pretty sure your not going to see service dogs are other working dogs at dog parks.
03-23-2014 05:51 PM
Sarah~
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunCzarina View Post
LOL I like to repeat Herder Overlord to myself when I get the urge to visit a dogpark. Morgan was so totally the supervisor when I took her, sitting there with the humans watching the other dogs making sure they behaved, ready to step in and control the situation if need be. Otto just wanted to play in the corner with his ball. I have a corner at home. Venus has never been but she's 14 almost 15 months old. She'd probably want to control all the other dogs too.
Herder overlord omg that's PERFECT lmao! That fits Eko to a T, he's so bossy!
03-23-2014 03:20 PM
SunCzarina LOL I like to repeat Herder Overlord to myself when I get the urge to visit a dogpark. Morgan was so totally the supervisor when I took her, sitting there with the humans watching the other dogs making sure they behaved, ready to step in and control the situation if need be. Otto just wanted to play in the corner with his ball. I have a corner at home. Venus has never been but she's 14 almost 15 months old. She'd probably want to control all the other dogs too.
03-23-2014 01:24 PM
glowingtoadfly I never take my guys to the dog park unless the smaller area is empty for fetch. GSD's are not really a breed for the dog park anyway.
03-23-2014 12:54 PM
wolfy dog Your dogs are NOT puppies and even though they do not attack physically, a good scare is enough to make a not so stable young dog to be dog aggressive. You should not take them to dog parks. Like it was said before, situations and owners that defend their unstable dogs are the reason dog parks get such a bad reputation.
You need to get your dogs trained separately first and to focus on you instead of having "fun" on their own terms.
If you take one to the park, does this happen too or do they rely on each other to bully nervous dogs?
And what about your own dogs' and your own safety? One day they will encounter a dog or owner who won't put up with this kind of behavior.
03-23-2014 07:45 AM
JeanKBBMMMAAN Over arousal in play is not a good thing.

And while avoidance may not help anything in your mind, it actually does prevent dogs from learning bad things.

Bonnie the Bull Terrier and Porter the Pitbull: Dog Park Pals or Not? | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

Dr. Yin is doing a lot of training and teaching here in that link and the ones here: Dog Play | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

She is not doing it in the actual environment of multiple dogs. She is also in the San Francisco area, where dog parks are typically larger and nicer than in other areas. Personally, I don't think they are worth it. But understand that you are representing the breed when you take your dogs out, so please make a good impression.
03-23-2014 04:10 AM
Sarah~
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastiewifelstovall View Post
Okay well avoidance doesn't help anything just FYI people. I never let my dogs hurt any other dog. It doesn't happen. Yeah they run up to other dogs they are puppies by the way. One just turned a year old and the other is under ten months. Neither is actually ripping into dogs. They don't do that. I may have confused some of you by saying attacking but that is how I feel it is. They get rough with some of the big dogs while playing but that is just wresting like dogs DO. With little dogs usually they let them be the ones on top and play gently and love playing with little dogs more than the big. I am not going to ever be one of those owners that think oh because I own the dog they have to pretty much be submissive all the time and have no spirit and be completely tuned to me no they are dogs to me. When I work with them they know I am working with them and it is one on one or two to one I don't work with them usually when they are playing I don't want them to act aggressively but I don't ever want them to stop having fun and being a dog. I do go on hikes with them as well and they stay near me and don't even care about other dogs but when it comes to the park it is their time and they are able to let go and be a dog. I think with some more work and different ideas that I have now they will be better and probably with age will come calmer behavior.. My dogs really do love the park and are a lot more relaxed when we are done at the park.
Wrestling can turn to fighting very quickly. They may be playing but if they annoy the wrong dog you can easily have a fight on your hands! A lot of people don't believe it but dogs do not need to play with other dogs or have dog friends. I think just asking my dogs to be indifferent to other dogs is just fine. People don't like dog parks because of exactly what you're talking about, just turning the dogs loose and letting them run wild. Yeah, the dog is having fun but a dog can have just as much fun in a more controlled situation! Just because a dog likes something does not mean they should be able to do it. My dogs LOVE to get in the trash. They love to jump up on people, beg at the dinner table, and get mouthy with me. Does that mean it's okay to do those things? A well trained dog who goes on a hike or for a swim instead of the park is having a great time! Why would you want your dogs only to listen to you when you're not at the park? Sit means sit, down means down, come means come no matter where we are! If they can't play appropriately with the other dogs they don't play, at least IMO.
03-23-2014 03:45 AM
KaiserandStella
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastiewifelstovall View Post
Okay well avoidance doesn't help anything just FYI people. I never let my dogs hurt any other dog. It doesn't happen. Yeah they run up to other dogs they are puppies by the way. One just turned a year old and the other is under ten months. Neither is actually ripping into dogs. They don't do that. I may have confused some of you by saying attacking but that is how I feel it is. They get rough with some of the big dogs while playing but that is just wresting like dogs DO. With little dogs usually they let them be the ones on top and play gently and love playing with little dogs more than the big. I am not going to ever be one of those owners that think oh because I own the dog they have to pretty much be submissive all the time and have no spirit and be completely tuned to me no they are dogs to me. When I work with them they know I am working with them and it is one on one or two to one I don't work with them usually when they are playing I don't want them to act aggressively but I don't ever want them to stop having fun and being a dog. I do go on hikes with them as well and they stay near me and don't even care about other dogs but when it comes to the park it is their time and they are able to let go and be a dog. I think with some more work and different ideas that I have now they will be better and probably with age will come calmer behavior.. My dogs really do love the park and are a lot more relaxed when we are done at the park.
If Cesar Millan was helping you with your dogs he would advise you to keep them calm-submissive at all times especially before entering the dog park. Also, for you to stay calm-assertive and not worry about a bad outcome. To let them go enjoy being dogs but if they so much as looked at another dog the wrong way he would be instantly on them correcting them physically and verbally in his Cesar way till they become calm-submissive again.
03-23-2014 03:03 AM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastiewifelstovall View Post
Okay well avoidance doesn't help anything just FYI people. I never let my dogs hurt any other dog. It doesn't happen. Yeah they run up to other dogs they are puppies by the way. One just turned a year old and the other is under ten months. Neither is actually ripping into dogs. They don't do that. I may have confused some of you by saying attacking but that is how I feel it is. They get rough with some of the big dogs while playing but that is just wresting like dogs DO. With little dogs usually they let them be the ones on top and play gently and love playing with little dogs more than the big.
Well those dogs sound a lot different than the ones in the first post??

Quote:
Originally Posted by coastiewifelstovall View Post
I am not going to ever be one of those owners that think oh because I own the dog they have to pretty much be submissive all the time and have no spirit and be completely tuned to me no they are dogs to me.
Ok we'll play your way, this is what my dog ignoring, non dog park dog,did, that according to you, should have "no spirit and be completely submissive:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...-dog-do-2.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by coastiewifelstovall View Post
When I work with them they know I am working with them and it is one on one or two to one I don't work with them usually when they are playing I don't want them to act aggressively but I don't ever want them to stop having fun and being a dog. I do go on hikes with them as well and they stay near me and don't even care about other dogs but when it comes to the park it is their time and they are able to let go and be a dog. I think with some more work and different ideas that I have now they will be better and probably with age will come calmer behavior.. My dogs really do love the park and are a lot more relaxed when we are done at the park.
Ok dogs aren't wine, they don't get better with age, they get better with "proper" training! My dogs are/were safe in public around kids and around other dogs and are always under my control. They were never allowed to run around out of control around packs of dogs. There fun was me my wife and each other.

And yes I'm sure your dogs are tired and happy after a day at the dog park. It's a lot easier to exercise them that way. They are also "learning" that they don't need "you" to have fun and that it's OK for them to be out of control. That's a theory on my part don't know because I don't do dog parks. What I do know is that my dogs will never be on Cesar 911,my dogs have "no" problems because my dogs never picked up any behavioural problems from "playing dogs gone wild!'
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