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Thread: Faze out the treats? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-20-2014 06:00 PM
SummerGSDLover
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJEtzel View Post
It's easy to do, and happens to the best of us!
Thank you. Back to basics then?

*-*Summer*-*
03-20-2014 05:40 PM
DJEtzel
Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerGSDLover View Post
Thank you! I think you're right. I'm getting ahead of where he actually is. *embarrassed*

*-*Summer*-*
It's easy to do, and happens to the best of us!
03-20-2014 05:38 PM
SummerGSDLover
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJEtzel View Post
If you're having problems with him depending on treats being present, then he doesn't fully understand the commands and isn't proofed in them, so I would be rewarding each time, just not with treats present. Have them in your pocket, hand signal with and empty had for a sit, mark and pull a treat out. Same for down. Do this 10 or so times, then only reward every other time. Then start rewarding for each command vary irregularly, so that he never knows when it is coming!

don't get into the habit of always asking for something harder without a reward, or only rewarding certain commands and not others when you're still proofing them all.
Thank you! I think you're right. I'm getting ahead of where he actually is. *embarrassed*

*-*Summer*-*
03-20-2014 05:37 PM
SummerGSDLover
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilie View Post
So, you aren't willing to reward at all? Not even a "Good sit!"?
I am willing. Just do it verbally though. Is that going to work? He looks happy when I say "Good sit!" by wagging his tail.

*-*Summer*-*
03-20-2014 02:20 PM
DJEtzel If you're having problems with him depending on treats being present, then he doesn't fully understand the commands and isn't proofed in them, so I would be rewarding each time, just not with treats present. Have them in your pocket, hand signal with and empty had for a sit, mark and pull a treat out. Same for down. Do this 10 or so times, then only reward every other time. Then start rewarding for each command vary irregularly, so that he never knows when it is coming!

don't get into the habit of always asking for something harder without a reward, or only rewarding certain commands and not others when you're still proofing them all.
03-20-2014 02:19 PM
Lilie So, you aren't willing to reward at all? Not even a "Good sit!"?
03-20-2014 02:00 PM
SummerGSDLover
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merciel View Post
Here's a pretty good blog post on distinguishing between lures, rewards, and bribes, and phasing out the use of treats for basic pet obedience: Rewards, Lures & Bribes | Suzanne Clothier

If you're training for competition then this eventually gets pretty complicated, but for basic household manners and everyday life skills, it is not difficult at all to wean off food rewards.
This was a very handy link. Thank you! I've started hiding the treats and giving one only every once in a while. It's going ok but kind of rough because he's waiting before doing it. Example from this morning:

"Yogi, sit" (sits)
"Down" (waits expectantly for treat, when none come he turns away. Correction on prong collar, he downs)
"sit" (he sits)
"Yogi, down" (said in a firmer voice. Looks at me for a couple seconds then slowly goes down. Treated.)

Does this sound ok?

*-*Summer*-*
03-19-2014 10:40 AM
Baillif I hit that kind of thing from multiple angles.

When theyre young positive reinforcement comes fast and furious and we train in drive usually. The stuff isn't obedience at that point it is just a game. Theres some classical conditioning for obedience=fun happening here.

Then when they're a bit older i add duration and stability but rewards are still coming pretty frequently.

When theyre around 6-7 months old they start learning all the stuff with a combo of negative reinforcement and positive reinforcement. Eventually the positive reinforcement starts to fade more and more but the negative reinforcement stays fairly consistent. The escape of pressure makes the behavior itself a reward and they're happy they know how to escape pressure. Negative reinforcement or punishment for inattention appears at this stage too.

Then when the behavior is fluid and they are fluent in it i punish if they don't perform or for distraction. Rewards are random and fairly infrequent here but do happen and will always happen.

Done right they love the work they look happy (because they are happy) but they do their job despite distraction.
03-19-2014 10:32 AM
Merciel Here's a pretty good blog post on distinguishing between lures, rewards, and bribes, and phasing out the use of treats for basic pet obedience: Rewards, Lures & Bribes | Suzanne Clothier

If you're training for competition then this eventually gets pretty complicated, but for basic household manners and everyday life skills, it is not difficult at all to wean off food rewards.
03-19-2014 10:05 AM
Lilie I have a highly food driven 2 yr old dog. I ALWAYS have treats with me. He just never knows when I'm going to give him something. Therefore, he always complies. I may give him a treat for something simple and then go onto more complex commands and just provide a "yes!" or "good!". If I start to lose him, I might quit and do some play instead of treating to bring his attention back to me. There are still days that I'll treat often. I keep him guessing, fresh, happy to comply.
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