|03-02-2014 11:31 PM|
Personally if it was me I would pass on it. I made the mistake of staying in a class that used harsher methods than I liked at the time once and I regretted it later even though I mostly kept to the type of training I was used to while in the class.
I don't understand the "no treats" stuff. I use whatever is motivating for the dog, and I don't see why you would want to ignore a strong motivator (for many dogs). Even the "old school" obedience classes I took used treats.
|03-02-2014 11:07 PM|
|Mary Beth||If you want to give to try one class like your husband suggested, I don't think it would confuse Kane if you used treats at home and not at the class. The class is a different environment with other dogs, their handlers, and the trainer - so much going on that Kane will hopefully not think of treats - though you could slip him a treat right after class for being a good dog. What you may want to do is to observe a class first and see if you want to enroll. From what you have described of the trainer, it does remind me very much of the first edition (c1978) of the Monks of New Skete "How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend". I would recommend reading that book to give you a background and further information to help you make your decision.|
|03-01-2014 12:44 PM|
Thank you for all the replies. I know there are many common threads about the issue, but Baillif is right. I'm ignorant to other training methods and interested in learning what else is out there. However, not at the expense of my dog. I watched the Tyler Muto videos on the prong and have decided I want to use that and will not be entertaining a choke chain.
I'm emailing the Schutzhund Club of Buffalo to see if they will still let us participate with less than good manners. My husband is pushing me to try at least one class before deciding against it. I'm going to voice my concerns with the trainer and explain that I won't be participating in any of the things I disagree with, whether it be alpha rolling or the other red flags you all mentioned. I still don't agree with the no treat method, would it confuse Kain to do our practice sessions at home with treats?
(I'm going to create another thread in the equipment section, as I found a Sprenger prong at CountryMax and couldn't pass it up. It's amazing, but probably best not placed here.)
|02-27-2014 07:55 PM|
I would pass on that class. I believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with training with food or toys, it works better for some dogs than praise alone. I disagree with his statement about using a headhalter if he is a trainer that uses corrections, its dangerous to correct with that thing.
You can learn a lot online just from videos. People mentioned Tyler Muto. Michael Ellis dvds are really good. People here on this site have uploaded videos of their heelwork etc and had others comment on pointers or give advice. You can do a lot by yourself!
This is irony to me: but they DO NOT allow prong or e-collars. So at least the trainer isn't a "my way or the highway" kind of guy.
as for this Do you think GSDs benefit from a different or specific kind of training?
I think individual dogs benefit from kinds that work well for them. your dog, if he as as high drive and energy as he sounds, would probably mesh just fine with a balance between positive reinforcement (food, toys, etc) for learning, and prong correction for proofing. If you see your dog shut down you will know it doesnt work. I don't believe in alpha rolls as good methods
|02-27-2014 07:53 PM|
I can get something out of any training class. If I paid the money for the class, I would go with the dog, but YOU need to be clear that YOU are responsible for you dog's training and will have to live with the consequences. What this means, is that if you do not agree with something, than DON'T DO IT.
Do not make a big deal about it. If they call you out on it, tell them, that you will need to use a different method to accomplish that, because that doesn't work for you. But generally, just go with the flow. Our dogs are not made out of glass and they can handle most of what we send their way.
While I am not a fan of prongs, or choke chains or e-collars, you can use the prong in practice and then in the class switch to a martingale or a choke. A martingale is great because it won't let the dog slip its collar, and if you use one with some or all chain, it will give the dog the audial cue that he has reached the end of his tether. The martingale also tightens around the neck like a prong collar, so that is less likely to give undue pressure to an area of the dog's neck like a flat collar or choke chain might.
Just because it was a little confusing:
weary is when you are tired
wary is when you have concerns/nervous/anxious
Good luck with the puppy.
|02-27-2014 07:50 PM|
If you are interested in IPO, I would head to the club straight away. They will help you train in a manner that leads towards your goals, and you will avoid creating conflicting behaviors or bad habits from the start.
Don't worry about manners. I love it when someone brings a dog with no training. It just means I don't have to undo anything they may have started different than me.
|02-27-2014 07:46 PM|
What kaimeju said.
OP is suffering from culture shock of going from one side of the training spectrum to the other with no in-between. Find the middle path.
|02-27-2014 07:38 PM|
Oh and follow your gut.....parenting instinct is there for a reason be it two legged or four legged kids.
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|02-27-2014 07:36 PM|
I think if a trainer is locked into one method then they would not work for me. I think a trainer with a large tool box of tools even maybe going off their primary method would be able to address what ever issue we have vs. Someone locked into my way or the highway.
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|02-27-2014 07:25 PM|
IMHO the one innovative thing he did do was integrate BAT with the e-collar. That really impressed me, although I'm not daring enough to try it. The conversational leashwork stuff is presented in his blog as going above and beyond leash pressure work, but it's pretty much the same thing. It's just like using reins to guide a horse.
Back on topic, Cassidy's Mom (Debbie) is right that there isn't an excuse for teaching without a primary motivator. Very few dogs find praise to be a primary motivator. Sure, you *can* teach behaviors using negative reinforcement only, but why would you when you can do so without pressure and make it a fun, solid training experience for your dog? I've seen trainers go so far as to say they won't use treats because it makes dogs too hyperactive...Well what does that say about their ability to communicate what they want to the dog?
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