|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|02-20-2014 09:19 PM|
|Chip18||Man, I only wanted to let him know about Trifexis!|
|02-20-2014 09:02 PM|
How far from Chico are you? I have friends up there that have GSDs and I know they have a great vet.. but not sure if your location is near there.
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|02-20-2014 08:40 PM|
|GRANBYsyztem||Thanks for all the info. Didn't mean to start a dispute over heartworm medications and killing dogs. Just wanted to see if the vet fees sounded reasonable. For those that are curious, im in Northern california. Not a terrible place as far as heartworms go but from what I know not the safest either. And I guess it is becoming a growing concern. In any case. From all the places I've called,the prices were all about the same. Except this was the only place that gave the flea/heartworm medications and included free office visits. That plus friendly staff, clean facilities, and great reviews.. Seemed pretty good.|
|02-20-2014 08:22 PM|
One more thing: it takes 6 months for an adult HW to develop. That doesn't mean it takes that long for infection.
Ivermectin only kills the microfilaria that developed in the last 30 days. (Advantage Multi might go as long as 45 days from what I've read, but the vet advice is always to play it safe and not push past 30.)
The stage in between where ivermectin gets them and when they are adults won't show up on a HW test, but it doesn't mean they aren't infected. It means the test isn't sensitive enough to pick up the juvenile worms. They're in there, growing (and reproducing if the dog isn't getting monthly preventative).
The American Heartworm Society's immiticide treatment protocol requires three months on prevention before starting treatment for this reason (the adulticide immiticide treatment only kills adult worms, so the juvenile worms would other wise escape treatment, and your dog would test positive again in 6 months). The stage where they're if they're too old to kill with ivermectin but too young for immiticide is the concern.
I read that Advantage Multi just got relabeled by the FDA for some efficacy on some stage of juvenile worm, but it's not an adulticide.
It's all very complicated as to which products kill which stage, but the only-dose-every-three month advice will result in an infection down here.
Many, many of us down here have had the experience of adopting a HW- puppy, keeping it on preventative and having it turn HW+ at the 6-month recheck because it was already infected when adopted, but it wasn't showing up on the test yet b/c the worms were too young. That's not a failure of the preventative products (and they were used safely during this period)--it's just a function of the HW lifecycle, and the fact that that tests are designed to be sensitive to adult HW, not juveniles.
|02-20-2014 07:58 PM|
Heartgard is ivermectin-based. The amount of ivermectin in it is identical in generic products like Petrust (Walmart) and Iverhart (online). It's labeled for pups over 6 weeks, if I remember correctly.
Ivermectin has been given to HW+ dogs for slow kill treatment for years and years in the Deep South. People used to worry about shock from sudden microfilaria die-off in a HW+ dog--that turned out to be theoretical, I guess, and is now no longer talked about by vets as a concern. They now actually give a big dose of it sometimes as part of HW treatment at the end of the treatment to kill microfilaria, even with fast kill.
Trifexis and Proheart though cannot be given to HW+ dogs. Advantage Multi is the product of choice for HW+ dogs in the Deep South, where we deal with this all the time. I don't know anyone who uses Revolution down here.
There has been a lot of debate about taking HW preventatives off RX. The vet lobby has stopped it as it's a money-maker. The best argument for keeping it under RX is requiring an annual test makes sure people stay compliant. There's so much misinformation about not needing it year-round, or encouraging people to skip doses that MANY dogs end up HW+ due to failure to follow instructions.
In the Deep South, a dog that isn't on it year-round WILL get HW -- even if an inside dog. You can play with essential oils all you want, but if a mosquito finds your dog, good luck. We have an epidemic. Anyone playing games with this down here will end up with a + dog and a BIG vet bill. Worse, the cure for HW is immiticide which is arsenic-based, requires two months of crate rest and has a mortality rate that is not insignificant. If you've never seen an untreated dog die from HW, you are lucky--it's a painful, miserable, sad way to die (and dogs with advanced HW are very common in shelters and yards here).
It's quite possible that in the far north it's not an epidemic, and less intensive prevention works for you. That's not true down here, where mosquitoes are a year-round phenomenon, and the infection rate is very, very high.
|02-20-2014 07:11 PM|
Originally Posted by my boy diesel View Post
Yes, sarcasm is most helpful.
Helping people understand why you propagate dangerous pesticides on growing puppies with something (link) to reasons...that would be more helpful.
Much like mine, as to why you SHOULDN'T.
Prevent mosquito bites, you prevent heartworm. Many natural solutions - non toxic.
OP, btw...it takes about 5-8 months from the time a mosquito with HW bites your pooch, before it actually makes it into the heart...I believe it's 3 months in the dermis - that's where spot-ons treat...so you could if you had to use - do every three months - less toxicity.
IF your dog is not MDR1 (this is a cheek swab - worth doing as anti-diarrhea drugs, certain anesthesia's and so on are on the mdr1 list - including the active in trifexis too)...I read somewhere that Heartguard is the safest HW prevention...
|02-20-2014 07:02 PM|
Originally Posted by GRANBYsyztem View Post
|02-20-2014 06:59 PM|
|my boy diesel||
maybe this will help you
wrap your head around things
Let me google that for you
|02-20-2014 06:58 PM|
Originally Posted by my boy diesel View Post
How is it different? I mean ivermectin treatment for active HW is oral? Injection?
So putting a miniscule amount on the skin behind the shoulders is "more dangerous" for active HW infection?
Please elaborate, as I am trying to wrap my head around this.
|02-20-2014 06:52 PM|
|my boy diesel||
active hw infection is treated differently
than trying to prevent it
its really that simple
granby that sounds like a great deal then
i say go for it
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