German Shepherd Dog Forums - Reply to Topic

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Thread: Showing W/L in breed shows? Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces):
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
02-18-2014 01:45 PM
Smithie86 Definitely training in the ring, practice for tattoo check/microchip check (make sure readable and have it), teeth and stacking and possibly get a show handler for the show it self.

Show handler fees are "usually" cost of the class. Payable there....

It is respect for the other handlers, owners and judge.

And not only is the judge critiquing the structure, he/she is also looking at the temperament. People forget that and can lose a rating due to temperament issues.

Saw it happen this past year.
02-18-2014 11:23 AM
qbchottu Stick with UKC or SV type shows if you plan on showing working lines. I have shown several working dogs in SV shows and have always done well. Judges are fair to dogs that are conditioned, prepared, trained, and ready for the show ring. It's annoying to have a ring of prepared dogs ready to gait/stack/show - only to have a oddity shrieking nutcase in the mix that disrupts the flow of the ring.

Whichever venue you decide on, give it the proper respect by preparing and training in advance. Good luck to you
02-18-2014 09:27 AM
Liesje I've shown WL dogs but in UKC. Several reasons...in AKC it seems you need a pro handler to do well. I don't have a problem with that but my *own* dogs are always HOT (handler-owner-trained). The point of doing ring training and conformation class is so *I* can show them. UKC is a more appropriate venue for that. It's less expensive and much more accessible for me since headquarters are an hour away. I could probably show once a month without ever leaving the state if I wanted to. Also I do other UKC performance events, so I can enter a dog in multiple things at one show. I don't do any AKC performance events anymore. People I know are more into UKC so it's easier to round up enough dogs to actually get "wins" (you have to beat a certain number of dogs in order for it to count). It's not just that the UKC is viewed as more WGSL or WL friendly, it just makes more sense.
02-17-2014 11:01 PM
Xeph
Quote:
I think showing WL dogs in AKC conformation is a great thing to do if you have the stones for it.
And the money. It is not inexpensive.
02-17-2014 10:47 PM
Freestep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie W View Post
The thing that I just find it hard to understand, is; if a show dog is conformationally different from a working dog, then how does the correct conformation get decided? I understand that with a working dog, it would be based on physical attributes required to do the job for which the dog has been bred. But if the dog is not expected to be built for a job, then how do the breed experts decide what is, and what isn't desirable?
Well, isn't that a good question? It's, uh, complicated. This is an oft-discussed issue amongst the experts themselves... what is and isn't desirable, and who decides? Which GSD is the "real" GSD? Each camp thinks theirs is, and has their own reasoning, which the other camps tend to disagree with.

Quote:
I'm guessing it's a fluid thing that changes over time, according to fashions of the day?
Yes and no. The standard itself does not change, but the interpretation of it changes. Look at any breed and how it evolves (or devolves) over time. Some are very dramatic, within 50 years you wouldn't know it was the same breed. Who makes these changes? Judges, handlers, breeders all influence each other. Sometimes a "fad" will come along, some great show dog that has some extreme trait that everyone goes ga-ga over, breeders reproduce it, famous handlers get the dogs seen, judges put them up... fashion... politics... nepotism... yada yada yada. People want to win, and will do whatever it takes.

My personal feeling, which is quite idealistic, is that judges can only put up what is put in front of them. If we get working lines--of any breed--into the conformation ring, the judge at least has a choice. Maybe some all-breed judges have secretly hated the current fad in a certain breed, and maybe they look at the WL dog in the ring and think "we need more of THAT". And if they are brave, they will put up the WL dog, just to make a statement.

Now, this assumes there are (or will be) judges that are NOT corrupt and politically beholden. This will not happen overnight. I'm thinking that *IF* people start showing their working-line dogs, not to win, but just to get them seen, judges will get used to seeing them, and come to appreciate them. And maybe in 30-40 years, we will start to see things change.

But it has to start somewhere, so I think showing WL dogs in AKC conformation is a great thing to do if you have the stones for it. You can't go in expecting to win, and you have to be gracious. You will be spending money, so you have be able to get something out of it other than winning. Personally I love seeing working lines of any breed in the conformation ring, and I think they should get out and be seen. A dog that still does what it was bred to do--imagine that!
02-17-2014 10:14 PM
Xeph
Quote:
I heard there were a couple of ASL/DDR crosses that turned out nice.
Yes. But I don't know any that have finished their championship(s).

There is not a movement (IMO) to blend the lines. This is more a matter for ASL people, I believe, to bring in new blood.
02-17-2014 10:12 PM
Freestep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeph View Post
I would have no problem infusing the right WL animals into my program, but I wouldn't do WL x ASL directly, mostly because I think I'd end up with butters (nerve strength issues). Nerve strength is more easily matched between WGSL and ASL. Improvement without crazy animals.
I heard there were a couple of ASL/DDR crosses that turned out nice.
02-17-2014 09:52 PM
Blitzkrieg1 I see, would you say there is a movement to blend the two strains of SL or just bring in some new blood to rejuv the regular lines?
02-17-2014 09:48 PM
Xeph The hardest part of these crosses is not ending up with crappy toplines and no fronts.
02-17-2014 09:47 PM
Xeph My own goal is more drive, improved temperament, maintaining good breed type, a bit more coat.

I would have no problem infusing the right WL animals into my program, but I wouldn't do WL x ASL directly, mostly because I think I'd end up with butters (nerve strength issues). Nerve strength is more easily matched between WGSL and ASL. Improvement without crazy animals.

Are these dogs winning? Some of them, yes. There are pure WGSL dogs (recent) that have achieved their American championships, though admittedly those dogs were campaigned by "faces".
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum