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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-23-2014 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by Momto2GSDs View Post
I'm not saying LOVE the woman, and not saying every single dog out there can handle raw without specific guided instructions from a trained nutritionist if they have major problems. Just saying that she has some viable points for the following reasons.

Dogs' (Wolves’) were designed to get live enzymes from the fresh prey that they killed. Their pancreas only produces a certain amount of enzymes (they didn’t need a lot b/c they ate live foods before being domesticated) and if they are not getting the enzymes they need from their prey’s guts and entrails, they have to get it from somewhere to be able to digest, absorb, and assimilate their food PROPERLY. Not having enough enzymes to do this can create mal-digestion and or mal-absorption in some dogs. The dog may end up only partially digesting its food in the stomach, and partially fermenting it in the gut and not absorbing all the nutrients and vitamins in the food. The dry kibble or the canned foods we feed are cooked at high temperatures so they are depleted of their enzymes and are therefore not living foods. This causes the pancreas to over tax itself trying to keep up, which can eventually weaken it allowing toxins to build up in the system. This is a key time for issues like yeast, pancreatitis, epi, diarrhea, bad breath, doggy order, allergies, arthritis, skin issues and a compromised immune system (to name a few), take hold. Meaning, illness can surface just about any place in the body.
Many pet foods get a lot of their “protein” from grains instead of from meat. The dogs system was not designed to digest the complex proteins in grains so this is why a “grain free” diet is better for those dogs with issues. Also, many popular pet foods have wheat, corn or fish meal in them which most likely has been contaminated with Mycotoxins, which are toxins from mold and fungi. Another thing is that most “plant products” today are Genetically Modified (GMO’s) which create inflammatory conditions. And, there are some Bacteria’s called Endotoxins which are not destroyed during the cooking process of kibble. Pet food manufacturers do not test for these toxins. These are things that can also weaken or compromise the gut and/or immune system allowing illness to surface. Since 70% of the immune system lies in the digestive tract, a dogs’ immune system HAS to be functioning properly.

That's just my take on things! I had to learn the hard way with our first GSD that was near death. I know we all have different opinions and I'm not trying to start a war here (LOL), just sharing my first hand experience!

I absolutely agree about the GMos. As a person that has food intolerances and allergies, it does not surprise me that now our animals are coming up with these problems because of the crap food our country produces. It is only a matter of time before we start seeing more GMO free and organic food for our animals as well.
02-23-2014 06:50 PM
Momto2GSDs Sorry for the late response.

I am not disrespecting anyone’s opinion here in my following statements, nor am I trying to prove anyone wrong. Just sharing info that I have found in the past years from personal experience and personal info/learning from Holistic Vets, Homeotoxicoligists’ and Homeopath’s. After all…..isn’t sharing what has worked for YOU and others, to possibly help someone else, what’s it is all about?

First, the “scientific proof/studies” question/comments. I can speak from first-hand experience, personal research and use of what worked for my illness and our first German Shepherd who was near death from severe epi and other problems. If not for “Alternate” therapies, I, and my GSD may not have made it. My experiences and also, statements from the “Holistic” side of the illnesses, show that by using alternatives, other than drugs and poor quality prescription diets, could give an animal a better quality of life. These vets, after having seen dogs & cats in their practices over many years, use different modalities such as quality foods, supplements, homeopathics’, acupuncture, chiropractics, and other modalities. They may not be able to completely heal all of them, but have been able to correct and balance the illnesses’.

But when it comes to commercial food….. let’s face it……who has the millions of dollars it would cost to do a “study” going up against the big dog food conglomerates’ to prove that their ingredients are not of top nutritional quality, and most is what is left over/rejected from the human food chain or worse…..from disreputable countries!

As for food, my view, and what I've witnessed over the years, is that if a dog is having an issue, and you can afford to do so, why not take EVERYTHING out of the diet and control the ingredients? I don’t care if it’s raw or you cook it. You just don’t know if the dog is sensitive to just one little vitamin supplement in a commercial kibble. Then, after a trial of about 6 weeks, slowly begin adding one item at a time back into the diet and eventually the kibble, if that is what you choose to feed, to see if there is a reaction. Considering that most companies buy supplements in bulk, you know that they are not human grade certified items, unless of course they say so, which most don’t. Most imports for “animal use” can be from Asia which would include China…… then the question is “how thoroughly tested are these products?” Brings to mind the 2007 Melamine poisonings and the Jerky Treats of today! As for me (and my family), I have fed raw, ground meat and pulverized vegetables for almost 20 years now, to a variety of dogs from a 5 pound Italian Greyhound, to a 10 pound Maltease, to 60 pound Labs, to 5 various sized GSD’s with never one instance of anyone, dog or human getting ill. Although there are a few decent kibbles out there (again, MY opinion after researching ingredients) for me, most kibbles would be like eating McDonald's Chicken Nuggets and Fries 2 times daily for the rest of my life without throwing in some vegetables and lean meat. What is the end result years down the line with the dogs who eat feathers (in Royal Canin’s Anallergenic) by-products and potatoes? Will some dogs’ thrive on it???? Of course…..but how would you know WHICH dog would end up living a long disease free life on that food and what the future would hold for the health of another dog? There’s no way of knowing. Ultimately, and in some cases unfortunately, time would tell if it would take a toll on vital organs or the immune system, etc.

Abandon Western Medicine completely? No, that would be ignorant on my part. My husband just had a heart procedure done, and not doing well, but, it saved his life! A time and place for ALL types of medicine……conventional or alternative…..proven or just documented success.

What about alternative’s not working? Yeah, I had a HEAP of bottles in my cupboard, and a lot of food items, that, after trying for 6-8 weeks, went by the wayside......thousands of dollars from when my first GSD was sick. But eventually, I found what “worked” for MY particular dog! For me to have given up because a food item wasn't working or I was using an unconventional herbal or homeopathic product that wasn’t “scientifically proven” would have given ME and my dog a far different outcome in life.

What would life be like without some HOPE and possibly trying alternative methods when Western medicine fails? I know some of you have had a bad experience with holistic vet’s or alternative treatments, and THAT is truly unfortunate. It was possibly the wrong vet who didn’t have complete experience or understanding of an illness, just as there are those types of instances with vets in the Western medicine field.

My point here is that maybe we can all agree to disagree on different views of health and take into consideration the techniques that have actually proved successful and that have been recorded in the alternative veterinarians’ practices even if a “scientific study” hasn’t been done.

Just……consider the possibilities!

02-19-2014 06:52 PM
carmspack just sharing - ENZYME DEFICIENCIES from
02-19-2014 04:12 PM
RubyTuesday Note, I understand others have very different experiences with both kibble & RAW. I've read of dogs that only do well on RAW & others that do much better on kibble. Ultimately, we need to do what works best for our dogs. There is a highly recommended allergy formula that I HATE. It's main ingredient is potatoes but if that's what my dog(s) thrived on I'd hold my nose & feed it. Many of those using it aren't pleased with the ingredient list but have found that it's the only food which relieves their poor dogs interminable allergic itching. In that case I'd not only feed it, but be glad it's available.
02-19-2014 02:38 PM
RubyTuesday I feed RAW & have for years. My*Wicked*Tribe did as well on kibble, both high end & mid-level kibble, as on RAW. With RAW the benefits that *I* have seen are far less solid waste & cleaner teeth. I'm happy to be feeding RAW but mine have all thrived on kibble, too. I switched to RAW b/c Orijen didn't cost a lot less & I couldn't see feeding kibble when it was almost as much as RAW & considerably less convenient. (It had to be shipped. Local choices are limited.)
02-18-2014 05:27 PM
carmspack those of us who are feeding a raw diet are contributing to health as the food , the meat , the raw fats , and any raw greens we give are "live" with enzymes ---

as to cancer --- the days of looking for the magic bullet are over
02-18-2014 03:37 PM
RubyTuesday A great deal of energy is required to digest & process food. *shrug*A great deal is also required just to maintain body temperature, even in temperate climates. For those of us fortunate to live in a land of abundance this represents no real problem. We simply eat a nutricious diet (often too much!), & can readily maintain growth or stasis, whichever is required. The situation is the same with our pets. We feed 'em, often more carefully & with a greater eye to balance & nutrition, than we give our own diets.

Unfortunately, pb breeding has compromised the immune systems in many, perhaps most, dog breeds. Given their myriad health problems GSDs almost certainly belong on that list. NOTHING will take the place of the improved breeding that is needed...Breeding that is truly concerned with health, soundness & longevity.

Where is the hard data which supports the proposition that routine enzyme supplementation improves the canine immune system or even overall health & well being? Label me a Luddite, but healthy organisms require little, if any, nutritional or metabolic supplementation. IF a dog (or cat, horse, human) isn't thriving its diet & environment s/b optimized before adding supplements.

Many nutritional/metabolic supplements fall in the category of benign but unproven to provide any benefits. Under some circumstances I've used them & might well use them again. However, taking an informed gamble that they *might* help & won't hurt is all that is. There really is no clear support for the more grandiose claims made for supplements. Unfortunately, too often desparate, distraught people are led astray & given false hopes with inflated claims.

H pylori, (stomach) , HPV (cervical) hepatitis -- bacterial infections that may lead to greater problems
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. HPV is a virus, not a bacterium. Hepatitis is a condition that can result from viral, bacterial or enviromental agents.
02-18-2014 11:22 AM
carmspack not cure , not treatment , not preventive in a direct manner .

Enzymes both metabolic and digestive , animal and plant based , contribute to optimized digestion . A great deal of "life energy" is taken up by digestion and absorption, removing waste . 70 to 80 per cent of the immune system are seated in the digestive system.
When the vitality of the immune system is weakened many problems arise , allergies, inflammation, yeast , infections result . Maybe not as evident in youth , but there comes a time , determined by how undermined or unsupported the immune system has been , when the enzymes which were finite and given or present at birth have declined , so the problems tend to amplify and then you have a cascade of problems . Rapid decline , accelerated aging , onset of disease process which favour a weakened .
Cancer is opportunistic .
H pylori, (stomach) , HPV (cervical) hepatitis -- bacterial infections that may lead to greater problems .
Enzyme protease which dissolves proteins also dissolves the stealth coating of tumors , fibrin coating , so these rogue cells are destroyed before they have the chance to do much damage.
In Germany there is a government approved drug which combines mistletoe and digestive enzymes which has shown a increase in survival of cancer patients.
02-18-2014 08:51 AM
RubyTuesday Carmen, that info is little more than basic chemistry & does not really support claims that enzymes are a cure or an effective treatment/preventative for cancer. Perhaps they are, but the evidence so far is weak & contradictatory. Only the most poorly designed & controlled studies support such claims at this time.
02-18-2014 08:07 AM
carmspack enzymes are activated in a very narrow , very specific range of conditions , pH , temperature, moisture , substrate. As long as the environment is conducive to them being active they will enable biochemical activity . Eventually they run out of energy and are absorbed as a protein . However once they are denatured , temperature over 118 (cooked) they are permanently inactivated.
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