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Thread: Still Reactive (on leash) and NOTHING is working Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-10-2014 01:32 PM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by track1636 View Post
I can also say that I think she has pretty much been kind of 'unsure' or scared since we first brought her home. So I am not sure if the breeders were too hard on her because they started to train the pups before we took her home. So it something we have been dealing with from day one.
`There you go yet again, more details! Most likely a different pup and what you did with early socialization might not have been a problem? But... this pup was different!

Quote:
Originally Posted by track1636 View Post
But maybe just starting fresh and going through all of the socializing and loose leash walking would be the best solution at this point. Thank you again for your feedback. I just feel super frustrated and I love my dogs and consider them part of my family, so I get a bit defensive.
Now you're talking, patience and time and a minimum and/or an avoidance of gizmos!

Not saying "training tools" are of no value, but I am saying they are "very" easy to abuse by first time users!
02-10-2014 12:58 PM
Baillif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear L View Post
I've a leash reactive dog based in fear and she's trained on ecollar and prong. Both have been great tools. She's not punished for lashing out in fear but for breaking a heel or a command. I'm not suggesting the OP to do this because I don't know her dog but to share that these tools can help some fearful dogs contrary to what some may believe.

Having a fearful dog myself I know how tricky it can be. It required a lot of learning and patience on my end and ignoring the judgments of those who's never owned a genetically fearful dog. If you're in the LA area there's a trainer I can suggest if you're interested.
This
02-10-2014 12:55 PM
carmspack there is going to be so much finesse necessary in this counter conditioning --- break down into the smallest of expectations , reward , release from control, but not off leash , start up again . Eventually the dog will find safety and comfort , reward , on leash . Give the dog some coping skills . Produce a good dog to handler empathetic relationship . Still the environment needs to be controlled - out of the zone where a trigger can tip the dog into that zone where the handler is blocked out . Might mean finding times and areas where there is no distraction , particularly dogs .

Is the issue with the leash one of constraint --close to handler -- and would you get the same result if the dog were on a lunge line , tracking line that is 20 feet. You did say the dog was okay off lead -- so what about a longer lead and effect control , recalls, distance control through that ?

One of the essences of herding dogs and GSD in particular is a sensitivity to the human , handler -- very aware -- so you are going to have to help the dog by being the relaxed model , as best as you can .
02-10-2014 12:25 PM
Msmaria In my very unprofessional opinion I wouldnt use any corrective collars without having a trainer look at him. Having a soft fearful dog is different from having a fearful dog.
02-10-2014 04:14 AM
carmspack sounds like it is genetic . "And she displayed her reaction to other dogs at a very early age (8 weeks, 10 weeks, etc "

have you considered Rescue remedy to calm her down ? What Is Rescue Remedy Pet | Bach Rescue Remedy Pet
02-09-2014 11:36 PM
track1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer11 View Post
this shows how little you know about ecollars

op i would suggest putting a leash on your dog in the house and just letting her walk around with it. maybe she's had a bad experience with the leash in the past? then move outside and just play in your backyard with the leash on. go slow. imo the only way to "fix" a leash reactive dog when the reactivity is based from fear is to change the way the dog thinks about the "threat". right now any dog or sound of a dog freaks her out because she is restrained by the leash and in her mind, cant get away. she needs to realize that a dog approaching is going to do her no harm while shes on leash. however you choose to alter her train of thought is up to you but redirecting her attention imo is just a bandaid to the real problem.
This is a great idea. Usually as soon as the leash comes out, she gets super excited (surprisingly) and then once we hit the sidewalk, she freaks out. So maybe having her wear it around the house would help her get more comfortable and calm down a bit before we rush outside. I do not know of a specific moment that occurred on the leash, she has always been a bit freaked out when walking. And she displayed her reaction to other dogs at a very early age (8 weeks, 10 weeks, etc). I need to make the leash a more enjoyable experience, not a fearful one. I have not tried this yet, so I am open to it.

I am not a fan of prong collars and have never even considered an e collar. I would rather her become confident with the leash, then rely on some other device. So we will see how she does.
02-09-2014 11:30 PM
track1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
You might have gotten ticked off but in the above you did clarify a lot of things so now we know it's a fearful dog. It's going to take more time.

I think creepy guys techniques could work, you could do that in the back yard or the house or an empty parking lot,

She has to know that you will protect her! Sounds like she's just not sure? And that is not about you it's what "I" think your dog thinks? Right now your dog feels that she has to protect herself from all the bad stuff.

I think an empty parking lot or your back yard (I'm assuming you have one) is the best course of action for the loose leash stuff as shown in the video. If the walks cause more stress than benefit for her, they aren't worth doing.

Now this one is a judgment call that only you can make. I strive for no bad experiences for my dogs ever! I've been both skilled and lucky over the years and that has been the case.

So with that as a goal in mind...forget that she likes the dog park, if "she" considers any part of getting there a bad experience...I'd avoid it!

Train her in the yard at some point she should take to it. At the point she no longer has an issue with the leash try a short walk. If she tightens up go home.

And now that you have cleared up a lot of the small details, I think we can safely say forget the E collar and you already said the prong was a no go! I think we can safely assume that you can't shock fear out of a dog!

I can't say in my experience this is what I did. I can say as Joe Q semi average pet guy this is what I'd try.

You don't need a trainer with this approach because you'd not be putting your dog at risk or under stress, give it shot for a month or so and see how she does?

The only tool you really need is time!

And this thread address what carmspack was talking about, bottom line early socialization
can be the source of problems and not the solution! It just happens that I did late socialization with my guy and he turned out fine...serious I don't like people issues!

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...alization.html
Hi Chip18, thank you for your feedback. I think you are right in that she feels as though she needs to protect herself (and protect us). She is very protective, which is why I think she puts herself out in front (which does not help the situation), and then its is overwhelming when she realizes she maybe doesn't have the confidence to protect us all, which she does not have to. So I think we will just kind of start over with her. We have a huge backyard which is where I do most of her training. We also have a few parks that are not super busy that I can maybe work with her in a new area versus always being in the backyard.

I can also say that I think she has pretty much been kind of 'unsure' or scared since we first brought her home. So I am not sure if the breeders were too hard on her because they started to train the pups before we took her home. So it something we have been dealing with from day one. But maybe just starting fresh and going through all of the socializing and loose leash walking would be the best solution at this point. Thank you again for your feedback. I just feel super frustrated and I love my dogs and consider them part of my family, so I get a bit defensive.
02-09-2014 11:02 PM
Bear L I've a leash reactive dog based in fear and she's trained on ecollar and prong. Both have been great tools. She's not punished for lashing out in fear but for breaking a heel or a command. I'm not suggesting the OP to do this because I don't know her dog but to share that these tools can help some fearful dogs contrary to what some may believe.

Having a fearful dog myself I know how tricky it can be. It required a lot of learning and patience on my end and ignoring the judgments of those who's never owned a genetically fearful dog. If you're in the LA area there's a trainer I can suggest if you're interested.
02-09-2014 10:25 PM
mtmarabianz Different thought pattern here, & probably too late .....

But I never let my puppy, bitch, play with other dogs, ie, become "doggy" = where dogs were more fun than me.

Or take the chance of her being dominated by another dog, which leads to its own problems, even later in maturity = dog aggression.

& as dogs/bitches reach sexual maturity, 18 months/2 years, I think a lot of problems can develope when they are running amuck with other canines, .... why dog parks are no-no's.

I worked with her daily, 4 times a day, constant, as at the time I wasn't working.
We walked, played tug, ball, OB, ect ....
I don't have any problems regarding other dogs, except if they wander in my yard
But she also knows the ignore command well

I raised her as a working dog off of Leerburg rational. Now that she is 5, & even after 18 months, I could see why the things I was training, & how I trained, were so very important = elimated problems or the need to "fix" things later. what is learned 1st by a puppy, is learned the best.
02-09-2014 09:58 PM
boomer11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
And now that you have cleared up a lot of the small details, I think we can safely say forget the E collar and you already said the prong was a no go! I think we can safely assume that you can't shock fear out of a dog!
this shows how little you know about ecollars

op i would suggest putting a leash on your dog in the house and just letting her walk around with it. maybe she's had a bad experience with the leash in the past? then move outside and just play in your backyard with the leash on. go slow. imo the only way to "fix" a leash reactive dog when the reactivity is based from fear is to change the way the dog thinks about the "threat". right now any dog or sound of a dog freaks her out because she is restrained by the leash and in her mind, cant get away. she needs to realize that a dog approaching is going to do her no harm while shes on leash. however you choose to alter her train of thought is up to you but redirecting her attention imo is just a bandaid to the real problem.
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