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Thread: Working line as Family Dog Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-11-2014 08:31 PM
carmspack quote "They let obedience or manners slip for a little bit (usually within the first few months) and then they end up with a poorly trained, no manners, WL GSD that runs the house."

and that is different from show line , byb gsds, any dog at all?

Hopefully a working line , with more attention put to secure nerves and social and environmental confidence can find the "calm" , can focus and learn more easily , be an interested partner in the dog to human relationship.

I don't see the problem with a working line being a good and memorable family dog. Pedigree and slant matters .
In the working lines you can have variations , once again , based on how the pedigree is built .
02-11-2014 07:51 PM
David Taggart
Quote:
Im not sure what you mean about asking about a puppy contract?
Now you know that such a thing exists.
02-11-2014 07:31 PM
meldy Lol ok I'll let it be...very confused right now! Lol but I'm ok with that!
Also should have edited my previous post properly in that if I have a contract question I will ask MY breeder not some random person as her contract is going to be the only one that matters to me
02-11-2014 07:28 PM
Merciel
Quote:
Originally Posted by meldy View Post
Im not sure where your information is from??
Yes, that's a common refrain.
02-11-2014 07:13 PM
meldy What question about contract? I have no question about contracts and I never have had one...hence my confusion??

I have my breeder picked out. If I had any such questions I'd ask not some random other person. That's just silly.

But the point remains Ive never asked the question to begin with so Im not sure where your information is from??
02-11-2014 07:10 PM
David Taggart I'd suggest you to register here and ask your question about a contract directly:
Micah Von Kraftwerk
02-11-2014 06:38 PM
meldy
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Taggart View Post
Please, it is not true. First of all - a good puppy is costly, a good breeder would ask you not less than $1.500 - 2000, otherwise the whole breeding business would lose any sense, because the breeder's investment in his dogs was huge. A good puppy is on demand, you order him/her before his mother was mated. First born puppies are the most valuable, you may post here on this Forum yet another question about filling a contract between you and the breeder who is responsible for your puppy health, temperament and intellectual potential, all these three qualities are genetically inherited in dogs. Every GSD carries a potential to become agressive, and that would be your responsibility not to trigger that devil, but to raise a confident and obedient companion. Dogs don't train themselves from birth, GSDs are terribly obedient dogs, but you should consider training from the very first day you get him. Schutzhund protection is only one of three parts of competition, it uses playful dogs and their prey drive, and agressive dogs are disqualified. If you asked about good trusting breeder - many professionals in this Forum would suggest one or several.

Costly and good are not mutually exclusive. Every breeder I looked at started at 1500$ that was the going rate. Regardless of the lines, titles etc.
Even the breeders who would sell me anything I want. And why wouldn't they charge the going rate? That doesn't mean you are getting what you pay for.

I stand by my assessment that a lot of it is breeder responsibility. I can name at least one WL breeder whose dogs are all over the place. On paper they look great (to someone like me with minimal knowledge) but they're mentally scattered with no consistency. As in NO consistency at all. This is not an issue of owner irresponsibility or lack of training. This is genetics and lack of care in what gets crossed with what.
It's puppy milling of WL dogs.

And dogs like Boban having such a bad rap...training? or genetics? You imply it's all training and only training...
Interesting...Im sure there are a number of breeders here who would disagree.

I know a little of how genetics works just from a history of breeding sport horses. There are lines that are workable, there are lines that produce a certain kind of athleticism and there are lines that are known for being borderline dangerous and moody. Regardless of how they are raised or handled. This is just a fact. I would assume the same is true of dogs.

Im not sure what you mean about asking about a puppy contract? Ive never asked such a thing anywhere on this forum?? If you could clarify what you mean by that statement that would be great!
02-11-2014 06:16 PM
David Taggart
Quote:
It seems to me the issue still stems from a lack of breeder responsibility or caring. If we assume that temperament is the main cause of unmanageability and aggression issues and it really seems to be just based on answers I got in my other thread about WL dogs that don't 'work'
Please, it is not true. First of all - a good puppy is costly, a good breeder would ask you not less than $1.500 - 2000, otherwise the whole breeding business would lose any sense, because the breeder's investment in his dogs was huge. A good puppy is on demand, you order him/her before his mother was mated. First born puppies are the most valuable, you may post here on this Forum yet another question about filling a contract between you and the breeder who is responsible for your puppy health, temperament and intellectual potential, all these three qualities are genetically inherited in dogs. Every GSD carries a potential to become agressive, and that would be your responsibility not to trigger that devil, but to raise a confident and obedient companion. Dogs don't train themselves from birth, GSDs are terribly obedient dogs, but you should consider training from the very first day you get him. Schutzhund protection is only one of three parts of competition, it uses playful dogs and their prey drive, and agressive dogs are disqualified. If you asked about good trusting breeder - many professionals in this Forum would suggest one or several.
02-11-2014 05:07 PM
meldy
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Taggart View Post
The question whether or not to licence the breed didn't lose its actuality, more and more people don't recognise GSD as a working class dog and want to raise him like a cactus in a pot, for their children to ride him, and the strangers to hug him. The trouble is not the dog, but people. If you tell the owner that hugging means agression in doggy language, and that was the only reason why his daughter was bitten - that person would raise his brow in disbelief. People are driven by their own ideas, they don't read anything - that is where the trouble starts. In Europe you would be simply rejected as a potential owner of a certain breed if you fail to answer certain questions about the puppy breed you intend to get at exam:Dog Control - Department of the Environment, Community & Local Government. You cannot have GSD if you don't have much time, if you are not physically fit, if you like alcohol and like to have big parties in the garden too often, if you are an argumentative, mentally unstable person, and especially - if you have a conflict in your family or about to divorse. Seems, the issue is getting tougher with time, no blame on the dog, only on the owner:Dog owners face written and practical tests - The Local,
The majority of working line GSD can potentially be great family pets. All depends who you are.

Should not a lot of these issues be weeded out by good breeders? I hate to put the responsibility on the breeders out there but I was picky as all **** about the buyers I sold to when I was breeding horses.

As a buyer I certainly noticed the difference with WL breeders. The good breeders wanted to know about me, what I was looking for and why. WHY was the big question (and the one that most impressed me as stupid as it sounds)...the bad breeders just offered a price and a date and possibly told me how amazing the cousins-sisters-grandsire twice removed was back in Germany and listed that dogs titles. And then they usually asked silly things like what colour/size/sex I was looking for. (literally these were the things I have been offered by people producing registered WL dogs)

It seems to me the issue still stems from a lack of breeder responsibility or caring. If we assume that temperament is the main cause of unmanageability and aggression issues and it really seems to be just based on answers I got in my other thread about WL dogs that don't 'work'

It's something that cant really be resolved. There will always be crappy breeders willing to sell dogs to people who don't care what they are buying they just want a big 'police dog' to impress their friends. Or that's my na´ve and brand new soon-to-be-owner take on the whole process.

I could have purchased a dozen puppies by now from people who would happily have sold me anything I asked for. Im just smart enough to know I don't know what to ask for....yet. Gotta wonder about the people buying those dogs.
02-11-2014 04:50 PM
David Taggart The question whether or not to licence the breed didn't lose its actuality, more and more people don't recognise GSD as a working class dog and want to raise him like a cactus in a pot, for their children to ride him, and the strangers to hug him. The trouble is not the dog, but people. If you tell the owner that hugging means agression in doggy language, and that was the only reason why his daughter was bitten - that person would raise his brow in disbelief. People are driven by their own ideas, they don't read anything - that is where the trouble starts. In Europe you would be simply rejected as a potential owner of a certain breed if you fail to answer certain questions about the puppy breed you intend to get at exam:Dog Control - Department of the Environment, Community & Local Government. You cannot have GSD if you don't have much time, if you are not physically fit, if you like alcohol and like to have big parties in the garden too often, if you are an argumentative, mentally unstable person, and especially - if you have a conflict in your family or about to divorse. Seems, the issue is getting tougher with time, no blame on the dog, only on the owner:Dog owners face written and practical tests - The Local,
The majority of working line GSD can potentially be great family pets. All depends who you are.
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