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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-06-2014 01:21 AM
volcano I wouldnt have thought of raw but my pups breedes weaned her onto raw and suggested it as the best food. A year later and no complaints, raw is the best because even if it says chicken or beef on the label its some garbage that they scraped off a floor in a slaughterhouse. Id prefer my girl eat human grade food. They dont throw whole chickens or cuts of beef into dog food. Its all scraps that no humans would eat. they say that hotdogs are made of lips and butholes, dog food is made from worse.
02-01-2014 05:12 PM
katro Dog Food Advisor
I highly suggest looking up whatever dry food you are considering on Dog Food Advisor. It's an eye opener. Are you close to any Costco stores? Their Kirkland brand is very affordable and is pretty decent quality.
02-01-2014 02:38 PM
Momto2GSDs
Quote:
Originally Posted by my boy diesel View Post
these issues and ingredients are
only a problem in very substandard
cheap foods such as
purina, beneful, ol'roy,
and even
science diet which is often primarily soy
using a high quality food
these things are not a problem
and all vitamin and mineral needs are met in a balanced manner
Totally agree Diesel!
I was agreeing with your assessment of the Iams and Purina, and thought the OP would want to know what the ingredients were before deciding.
I would suggest the OP look into Acana, or Nature's Vareity (NOT Nature's Recipe)and Earthborn as suggested.
Moms
02-01-2014 02:11 PM
my boy diesel these issues and ingredients are
only a problem in very substandard
cheap foods such as
purina, beneful, ol'roy,
and even
science diet which is often primarily soy
using a high quality food
these things are not a problem
and all vitamin and mineral needs are met in a balanced manner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto2GSDs View Post
Pet Parents need to read the ingredients on the labels carefully. If you don't know what an ingredient is...google..."what is ?????? in pet food" OR "what adverse effect is ??????? in pet food" OR "how does ?????? effect pets" to find out EXACTLY what they are feeding their dogs/cats/ferrets/horses etc.
MOST pet parents do not know these things. They may believe the commercials or are attracted to the pretty packages. But the pristine whole chicken or the beautiful colorful vegetables that they show falling into the dogs bowl, is most of the time, not the case. Meat & Fish MUST be identified as to what they are. Not just "Fish" or "Meat". BY-PRODUCT ingredients are what is REJECTED or LEFT OVER from the human food chain.
Here are some examples of the ingredients that are listed within this post:

Meat and bone meal UNIDENTIFIED MEAT AND BONES, AAFCO: “The rendered product from mammal tissue with or without bone, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.”UNidentified: could be euthanized elephants from the zoo or road kill. These are things collected by a Rendering Plant then sold to pet food companies as Meat. The AAFCO or the FDA is not at the manufacturing plants holding their hands to see how much of what goes in the vat!
The animal parts used can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters and so on. It can also include pus, cancerous tissue, and decomposed, spoiled tissue. The show "Dirty Jobs... A Look Inside A Rendering Plant" shows a cow who had been laying dead, out in the sun, for 5 days before the truck showed up to get it to take to the rendering plant.



Note:
"Pentobarbital is a drug used to end the life of an animal. It is commonly used to euthanize dogs, cat, and horses. Several years ago the FDA tested dog foods (no cat foods were tested) purchased from retail store shelves for the presence of the drug pentobarbital." From the FDA website “There appear to be associations between rendered or hydrolyzed ingredients and the presence of pentobarbital in dog food. The ingredients Meat and Bone Meal (MBM), Beef and Bone Meal (BBM), Animal Fat (AF), and Animal Digest (AD) are rendered or hydrolyzed from animal sources that could include euthanized animals.” "
Deep within the EPA document ‘Emissions Factors and Policy Applications Center, Chapter 9: Food and Agricultural Industries, Section 9.5 Introduction to Animal & Meat Products Preparation’ is the section 9.5.3 Meat Rendering Plants.
“Meat rendering plants process animal by-product materials for the production of tallow, grease, and high-protein meat and bone meal. Plants that operate in conjunction with animal slaughterhouses or poultry processing plants are called integrated rendering plants. Plants that collect their raw materials from a variety of offsite sources are called independent rendering plants. Independent plants obtain animal by-product materials, including grease, blood, feathers, offal, and entire animal carcasses, from the following sources: butcher shops, supermarkets, restaurants, fast-food chains, poultry processors, slaughterhouses, farms, ranches, feedlots,and animal shelters.
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/ap42/ch09/final/c9s05-3.pdf info from Susan Thixton.



Ground Yellow Corn, 88% of USA corn is GMO. GMO corn, soybeans dominate US market May produce allergies in some dogs. Filler that raises protein content in food.
Note:
Many pet foods get a lot of their “protein” from grains instead of from meat. Popular pet foods have wheat, corn or fish meal (UN-Named fish) in them which, most likely, has been contaminated with Mycotoxins, which are toxins from mold and fungi. Another thing is that most “plant products” today are Genetically Modified (GMO’s) which create inflammatory conditions. And, there are some Bacteria’s called Endotoxins, which can be present, that are not destroyed during the cooking process of kibble. Pet food manufacturers do not test for these toxins.

Wheat Middlings, (also called midds) is a very common ingredient in cattle feeds. Midds are a by-product of the flour milling industry. Leftovers from the human food chain such as cereals. Cheap filler.

Ground Wheat, WHEAT allergies are showing up as common allergens for dogs. They're cheap fillers in pet food and a buildup of them in your pet's body can cause an allergic reaction. Also used to increase the protein content of the food.


Chicken BY-Product Meal: These are ground parts from poultry carcasses such as feet, heads, feathers, intestines, tumors, necks and undeveloped eggs and can included any rendered material including cancerous and diseased tissues.


Soybean Meal, 94% is GMO (GMO corn, soybeans dominate US market) Soy contains "isoflavones" which are changed in the body to "phytoestrogens," which are similar to the hormone estrogen.http://reliableanswers.com/med/soy.asp It is common knowledge that soybeans are loaded with plant compounds that mimic estrogen, a female hormone.


Animal FatUNIDENTIFIED Animal:“This ingredient determined by the FDA to possibly contain euthanized companion animals.”


preserved with BHA and citric acid, Butylated hydroxyanisole is “reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen”, a cancer-causing agent.

Corn Gluten Meal, From AAFCO: The definition of Corn Gluten Meal is "the dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm. It may contain fermented corn extractives and/or corn germ meal." And, remember, 88% of corn in the USA is Genetically Modified corn. GMO corn, soybeans dominate US market

Animal DigestUNIDENTIFIED Animal, This meal is covered with charcoal and labeled "unfit for human consumption" before processing it into pet food. Digest can also include intestines, as well as the contents of those intestines, such as stool, bile, parasites and chemicals. “This ingredient is determined by the FDA to possibly contain euthanized companion animals”

Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (synthetic source of vitamin K activity)Also termed as “menadione”, ‘sodium bisulfate’ and other names:“K-3”:Hazard information regarding menadione lists “carcinogenic effects” and states “the substance is toxic to kidneys, lungs, liver, mucous membranes. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.”

red #40, yellow #5, blue #2: Food coloring:From the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) Yellow #5: : May be contaminated with such cancer causing substances as benzidine and 4 aminobiphenyl (or chemicals that the body converts to those substances).

Red #40: "Red 40, the most-widely used dye, may accelerate the appearance of immune-system tumors in mice. The dye causes hypersensitivity (allergy-like) reactions in a small number of consumers and might trigger hyperactivity in children. Considering the safety questions and its non-essentiality, Red 40 should be excluded from foods unless and until new tests clearly demonstrate its safety."
Blue #2: "Blue 2 cannot be considered safe given the statistically significant incidence of tumors, particularly brain gliomas, in male rats. It should not be used in foods."

I hope this short list encourages Pet Parents to REALLY read the labels and investigate the ingredients because there are MANY more undesirable ingredients in pet foods today!

Moms
02-01-2014 01:22 PM
shepherdmom I am neither for nor against a raw diet, but this is something to keep in mind....

"According to a report in the The Journal of Veterinary Medical Association, when veterinary nutritionists at Tufts tested three homemade raw food diets —the BARF diet, the Ultimate diet and the Volhard diet - all showed serious imbalances.
Says Delaney, “Raw food diets are most commonly deficient in calcium and phosphorus even if bone is included because calcium can be poorly absorbed from whole bone.” In fact the Chihuahua with the obstruction had been on this diet for a year and had osteopenia, or thinning of the bones.
While this little guy had no fractures, fractures due to calcium or phosphorus imbalance are not rare. Recently Delaney examined a kitten (one of three kittens similarly affected) on a raw food diet that had come in for lameness.
“X-rays showed that it had a fractured femur (a bone in the thigh) and pelvis due to thinning of the bones,” says Delaney. “We put them on a commercial kitten diet and, within a couple of days, the generalized lameness went away.” Within several weeks, the lameness due to the fractures went away and, by six weeks, the fractures were healed and the bone was back to normal density.
Delaney admits that grinding the bone can solve the obstruction problem and greatly improve the calcium and phosphorus imbalances, but it doesn’t solve the other nutritional problems.
“Even with the most careful preparation these diets have deficiencies in nutrients,” he states. Wild cats and dogs eat their whole prey including the liver, intestines, skin and fur so they get all the nutrients they need.
Interestingly, because the meat-based raw diets are high in fat, pets have a lustrous coat. The diets still aren’t as high in fat as prey items such as mice which may be comprised of 50% fat. Thus, pets may still not get enough of the essential fatty acids, but supplementation can take care of this and can also improve certain skin conditions. Additionally these diets may lack in taurine, an amino acid cats need that’s high in whole mice but not adequate in many meats.
Diets are often also lacking sources for all of the vitamins and frequently contain no source of trace metals such as zinc, iron and copper. Without these, the pet will develop an anemia which you might notice as a vague decline in athletic performance but would only discover on blood work.
Even if nutritionists find all the required elements in these homemade diets, they may not be balanced. This is complicated by the fact that excess levels of one compound such as zinc may cause depletion of another such as copper."

Here is the full link. Raw Food Dog Diet | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

Just feeding meat isn't going to cut it. You will have to make sure your puppy gets all the supplements she needs as well.
02-01-2014 12:37 PM
Momto2GSDs Pet Parents need to read the ingredients on the labels carefully. If you don't know what an ingredient is...google..."what is ?????? in pet food" OR "what adverse effect is ??????? in pet food" OR "how does ?????? effect pets" to find out EXACTLY what they are feeding their dogs/cats/ferrets/horses etc.
MOST pet parents do not know these things. They may believe the commercials or are attracted to the pretty packages. But the pristine whole chicken or the beautiful colorful vegetables that they show falling into the dogs bowl, is most of the time, not the case. Meat & Fish MUST be identified as to what they are. Not just "Fish" or "Meat". BY-PRODUCT ingredients are what is REJECTED or LEFT OVER from the human food chain.
Here are some examples of the ingredients that are listed within this post:

Meat and bone meal UNIDENTIFIED MEAT AND BONES, AAFCO: “The rendered product from mammal tissue with or without bone, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.”UNidentified: could be euthanized elephants from the zoo or road kill. These are things collected by a Rendering Plant then sold to pet food companies as Meat. The AAFCO or the FDA is not at the manufacturing plants holding their hands to see how much of what goes in the vat!
The animal parts used can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters and so on. It can also include pus, cancerous tissue, and decomposed, spoiled tissue. The show "Dirty Jobs... A Look Inside A Rendering Plant" shows a cow who had been laying dead, out in the sun, for 5 days before the truck showed up to get it to take to the rendering plant.



Note:
"Pentobarbital is a drug used to end the life of an animal. It is commonly used to euthanize dogs, cat, and horses. Several years ago the FDA tested dog foods (no cat foods were tested) purchased from retail store shelves for the presence of the drug pentobarbital." From the FDA website “There appear to be associations between rendered or hydrolyzed ingredients and the presence of pentobarbital in dog food. The ingredients Meat and Bone Meal (MBM), Beef and Bone Meal (BBM), Animal Fat (AF), and Animal Digest (AD) are rendered or hydrolyzed from animal sources that could include euthanized animals.” "
Deep within the EPA document ‘Emissions Factors and Policy Applications Center, Chapter 9: Food and Agricultural Industries, Section 9.5 Introduction to Animal & Meat Products Preparation’ is the section 9.5.3 Meat Rendering Plants.
“Meat rendering plants process animal by-product materials for the production of tallow, grease, and high-protein meat and bone meal. Plants that operate in conjunction with animal slaughterhouses or poultry processing plants are called integrated rendering plants. Plants that collect their raw materials from a variety of offsite sources are called independent rendering plants. Independent plants obtain animal by-product materials, including grease, blood, feathers, offal, and entire animal carcasses, from the following sources: butcher shops, supermarkets, restaurants, fast-food chains, poultry processors, slaughterhouses, farms, ranches, feedlots,and animal shelters.
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/ap42/ch09/final/c9s05-3.pdf info from Susan Thixton.



Ground Yellow Corn, 88% of USA corn is GMO. GMO corn, soybeans dominate US market May produce allergies in some dogs. Filler that raises protein content in food.
Note:
Many pet foods get a lot of their “protein” from grains instead of from meat. Popular pet foods have wheat, corn or fish meal (UN-Named fish) in them which, most likely, has been contaminated with Mycotoxins, which are toxins from mold and fungi. Another thing is that most “plant products” today are Genetically Modified (GMO’s) which create inflammatory conditions. And, there are some Bacteria’s called Endotoxins, which can be present, that are not destroyed during the cooking process of kibble. Pet food manufacturers do not test for these toxins.

Wheat Middlings, (also called midds) is a very common ingredient in cattle feeds. Midds are a by-product of the flour milling industry. Leftovers from the human food chain such as cereals. Cheap filler.

Ground Wheat, WHEAT allergies are showing up as common allergens for dogs. They're cheap fillers in pet food and a buildup of them in your pet's body can cause an allergic reaction. Also used to increase the protein content of the food.


Chicken BY-Product Meal: These are ground parts from poultry carcasses such as feet, heads, feathers, intestines, tumors, necks and undeveloped eggs and can included any rendered material including cancerous and diseased tissues.


Soybean Meal, 94% is GMO (GMO corn, soybeans dominate US market) Soy contains "isoflavones" which are changed in the body to "phytoestrogens," which are similar to the hormone estrogen.http://reliableanswers.com/med/soy.asp It is common knowledge that soybeans are loaded with plant compounds that mimic estrogen, a female hormone.


Animal FatUNIDENTIFIED Animal:“This ingredient determined by the FDA to possibly contain euthanized companion animals.”


preserved with BHA and citric acid, Butylated hydroxyanisole is “reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen”, a cancer-causing agent.

Corn Gluten Meal, From AAFCO: The definition of Corn Gluten Meal is "the dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm. It may contain fermented corn extractives and/or corn germ meal." And, remember, 88% of corn in the USA is Genetically Modified corn. GMO corn, soybeans dominate US market

Animal DigestUNIDENTIFIED Animal, This meal is covered with charcoal and labeled "unfit for human consumption" before processing it into pet food. Digest can also include intestines, as well as the contents of those intestines, such as stool, bile, parasites and chemicals. “This ingredient is determined by the FDA to possibly contain euthanized companion animals”

Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (synthetic source of vitamin K activity)Also termed as “menadione”, ‘sodium bisulfate’ and other names:“K-3”:Hazard information regarding menadione lists “carcinogenic effects” and states “the substance is toxic to kidneys, lungs, liver, mucous membranes. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.”

red #40, yellow #5, blue #2: Food coloring:From the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) Yellow #5: : May be contaminated with such cancer causing substances as benzidine and 4 aminobiphenyl (or chemicals that the body converts to those substances).

Red #40: "Red 40, the most-widely used dye, may accelerate the appearance of immune-system tumors in mice. The dye causes hypersensitivity (allergy-like) reactions in a small number of consumers and might trigger hyperactivity in children. Considering the safety questions and its non-essentiality, Red 40 should be excluded from foods unless and until new tests clearly demonstrate its safety."
Blue #2: "Blue 2 cannot be considered safe given the statistically significant incidence of tumors, particularly brain gliomas, in male rats. It should not be used in foods."

I hope this short list encourages Pet Parents to REALLY read the labels and investigate the ingredients because there are MANY more undesirable ingredients in pet foods today!

Moms
02-01-2014 09:26 AM
SuperG
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommanomma View Post
Right now my 2 month old is on purina puppy but I've been seeing bad reviews all over the place. I plan on changing his diet to a better brand food but the raw diet is really intriguing. What are some suggestions? I have half a bag left to make a decision.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
There is a mentality out there which suggests a transition from kibble to raw should be "overnight"....not mixing kibble with raw....as it is compared to mixing oil and water.

"Also, dogs and cats process raw foods and kibble very differently. Raw food is processed as a protein, held in the stomach for an acid bath, unlike kibble, which a dog or cat’s body views metabolically as a starch. If raw foods are added to dry foods for a meal, there can be digestive confusion, resulting in gassiness and belching."

I transitioned my pup to raw by grinding everything...bones included. I probably did it more for my peace of mind than anything else.

Good luck on your decision in your pup's food change,

SuperG
02-01-2014 09:08 AM
onyx'girl Your puppy is just getting over Parvo. I would go with a good food that is going to help him thrive and as his immune system is a bit compromised I would invest in probiotics/digestive enzymes and immune support.
If I couldn't feed raw, I would go with Earthborn Holistics as it does have the proper ratio of calcium/phosporus. Meadow Feast : Earthborn Holistic Pet Food
02-01-2014 01:38 AM
boomer11
Quote:
Originally Posted by james_tye View Post
If you want great dog food without paying over-inflated prices try Retriever Hi Protein Dog Food from Tractor Supply. 27% Protein - 15% Fat and $25.00 for a 50 pound bag. It's more expensive than what you will find at a regular store, but still much less than the other decent alternatives. If you have multiple shepherds this is a very good option.

Ingredients:
Meat and bone meal, ground yellow corn, wheat middlings, ground wheat, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), corn gluten meal, animal digest, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, color added (red #40, yellow #5, blue #2), L-lysine, zinc oxide, niacin, copper sulfate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, manganous oxide, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin supplement, sodium selenite, calcium iodate, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, cobalt carbonate..
Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 27.0%; Crude Fat (min.) 15.0%; Crude Fiber (max.) 4.0%; Moisture (max.) 12.0%; Calcium (min.) 1.20%; Phosphorus (min.) 0.90%; Vitamin A (min.) 8000 IU/kg; Omega 6 Fatty Acids (min.) 1.40%*
no offense but thats no worst than science diet or eukanuba. the first ingredient is meat meal. its not even real meat. its part of the animals that people cant eat so they grind it up. the rest are just fillers. the amount of ingredients in a kibble is listed in descending order. if the second most ingredient in there is ground yellow corn that to me is a sign of a low quality kibble. not to mention a lot of dogs are allergic to corn and wheat. just for comparison this is an ingredient list for a premium quality kibble....

Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, chicken liver*, whole herring*, boneless turkey*, turkey meal, turkey liver*, whole eggs*, boneless walleye*, whole salmon*, chicken heart*, chicken cartilage*, herring meal, salmon meal, chicken liver oil, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, sun-cured alfalfa, yams*, pea fiber, chickpeas, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, cranberries*, blueberries*, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium.

HUGE difference in what goes into the dogs body.
02-01-2014 01:26 AM
bibaxt Sounds like the puppies were much better when 'bibaxt' changed to raw.

I would also try Eukanuba. It is a bit more expensive but is a premium food so it is better quality. My puppy loves it. As 'Harry and Lola' said make the change gradual, you don't want to upset your puppies stomach.[/QUOTE]


They are doing much much better on raw. Eukanuba is what my puppies were on and they were not doing good, constant diarrhea or soft stools. One was not putting on weight. We've transitioned to full raw and they are both putting on good weight, they are both more active bright has dandruf anymore. Green tripe smells, that us my biggest complaint



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