|03-02-2014 01:02 AM|
he came into the world ..... and then the world came at him .
that is a little line that I used with my kids at bedtime . Around that thought they had to construct a story .
It is true though . The world pretty much does come AT you .
So , next, time that is how we start the next post.
|02-24-2014 03:45 PM|
rethinking early popular socialization
adult black female is Carmspack Kameshia retired working dog entering her 12 year shortly
sable pup is a 5 week old repeat on "Nicholas" pedigree
temporary (papered name) is Amelia after Earhart
|02-24-2014 03:42 PM|
oh, surprise, thanks Saphire for sending the picture . Sooner of later I'll figure it out .
Anyway I thought I would send this along . The adult dog is Carmspack Kameshia a female retired from work , who is approaching her 12th year . She and Sabrina who is on Gus's pedigree are sisters.
The pup is a 5 week old female from a repeat of the Nicholas litter .
The adult dog is very well socialized . She regards other dogs "as furniture" , the terminology that David Winners used . Typical of the outcome for dogs that I have raised. You can see many similar examples including young Nicholas with attention on handler , because he chooses to , not by bribe or force , while big adult male Badger is playing fetch and other dogs running around . Again in the Genetic obedience thread.
This adult female Kameshia , stands still , presents her side which reduces threat to the pup, is neutral . She allows pup to investigate. Pup is called , returns to handler , and big black Kameshia trots away.
Kameshia is neutral , no arousal or posturing . Pup shows confident interest -- nothing forced .
|02-24-2014 03:30 PM|
|02-24-2014 12:20 AM|
when you said this "In some sense it almost feels as though society has outstripped genetics." I thought of the test pilot who pushed the envelope to test the limits of the design .
Life has always been one of change and dogs have adopted right along side with us .
|02-23-2014 09:20 PM|
Of course that lifestyle is nigh impossible in modern American society and presumably much of the urbanized world. People today want very different things from their dogs and have numerous restrictions on what they're even allowed to do. Most people can't take their dog with them throughout their day because most places don't allow dogs. Neither can they leave them loose because there are leash laws, animal control, and traffic.
In some sense it almost feels as though society has outstripped genetics. People are still drawn to dogs, though a minority of pet owners really provides enough exercise and mental stimulation for their dogs. In the same way people are still drawn to gardening, hiking, hunting, and a slower pace, despite increasing demands for a faster workflow and more multitasking.
It would be great to socialize our pups as a natural part of the day, but how many people see much more than the inside of their office and their home on the average workday? Or when they do go out, is it to dog friendly places? Personally I feel like the pressures to intentionally socialize my pup brought about behavior changes that were as beneficial to me as they were to her. Yes, there was more gushing than was probably ideal, but we spent the afternoon in the park just hanging out. We went to new places; we tried new things, and none of it involved a computer or a tv.
I guess with all my rambling I just mean to say that while the more "primitive" methods of socialization may result in better dogs, they are impossible to replicate in modern society and the more "intentional" method urbanites have to employ may result in better people.
|02-23-2014 05:58 PM|
This exactly. Unforced symbiosis .
|02-23-2014 05:03 PM|
this is the crux of the matter "They understand normalcy and fit in to life because they are a part of real life from the time they are born, not some orchestrated and condensed socialization plan that overstimulates them."
there is so much urgency in out socialization -- not even in touch with the dog anymore .
I was looking at pre-Columbian North American Indian life. The role of the dog --- . And that is a totally different area of interest for those that think that "wolf" was still a recent or even relatively recent part of the dog before that time. DNA tested , and carbon dated. Dog and the skeletal remains of a man . The remains were over 10,000 years old and mitochondria showed a connection to old world European roots , not Asians as was previously thought (although this is still possible and you have regional populations and mixing) . Decorative pendants were found with the remains . Similar pendants were found in sites in Swabian Germany . Interestingly dog bones found near the site or other sites have been tested and there is DNA found in European land race breeds -- . Once my friend who is a senior research geneticist is finished his great work , we will start examining DNA from old North American Indian , Northern Canadian native dogs and an African Village dog - GSD of course as a comparison .
However, I was interested in their interactions -- the dogs were "natural" . There is a very good discussion in this thread with some interesting posts http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...ral-dog-3.html
|02-23-2014 03:50 PM|
My reference to hunting dogs was to illustrate how dogs learn through observation, not to compare the temperaments and behaviors of the different types of breeds.
|02-23-2014 03:46 PM|
These dogs are raised as part of life. They are not fawned over by every passer by. Most people notice them little more than they would a discarded food wrapper or group of children playing a game of stones. The dogs reciprocate this "normalcy" of life, in that they don't seek attention from every passer by either. Unless they are hungry and you are offering food, they don't even respond when enticed to interact.
The herding dogs will protect their flock and family with their lives. They put on a big display if you come too near, and will attempt to drive you off if necessary. If you turn to leave, they fall back into normal life, in control of themselves and the situation with no guidance from their family. Many times you will see a very young child, 8-10 years old, by themselves in the mountains with the flock, accompanied only by a pair of dogs to watch over them. Vegetation is so sparse that the flock must continually move to feed itself. The child knows the route of movement to take that will bring the flock through the most fertile areas and back to the village in a few days. The dogs maintain flock integrity and provide warning and protection to the flock and the shepherd alike.
These same dogs, who will drive you off if they encounter you in the mountains, reside calmly in the village when they are home. They are not contained and know the rules of living with people and other animals. They are calm and obedient to their owners, but in a general way. They understand normalcy and fit in to life because they are a part of real life from the time they are born, not some orchestrated and condensed socialization plan that overstimulates them.
In places where dogs are not a big deal, are not fawned over and are not put under pressure to be something unnatural to their genetic temperament, dogs successfully integrate into daily life without pause. They learn through observation and regular routine what is expected of them and how to behave. Their job is much like that of the people who choose to have them as partners. They fill the voids in their group and strive to help where they are asked. They will chase down a chicken for the evening meal, escort a toddler to the river to fetch water, fight off a pack of coyotes and bark when an unfamiliar face shows up on the horizon. No training DVDs required.
I think we trainers could benefit from being put in a down stay and being forced to observe dogs behaving well until we are calm
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