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Thread: Conflicted training experiences, Wash. State Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-23-2014 09:47 PM
von Bolen Frankly, this was all a learning experience regardless of everything else. Maybe I let my anger speak alittle louder than I should have, but at this time yesterday I was feeling pretty livid. I thought my dog was in danger of having his spirit destroyed and I was emotional about it. And in that, alot of what you guys said, whether I fully agree or not, forced me to reconsider what the circumstances were and put my anger in check.
01-23-2014 08:09 PM
von Bolen So now that we are a full day after my original post, heres where I'm at with this:

I am not going to make a public scene.
I am not going to stick it out out of spite.
I do feel this person treats people harshly, especially beginners like my mom.
I do feel the way this person wants us to correct the dog is excessive/abusive.
I admit it is my fault for not researching this trainer more.
I admit i still have alot to learn(though i am heavily mentored by 4 or 5 of who i feel are the top breeders in working and pet/show Gsheps in my area).
I do not pretend to know everything about the show or working world's, but can put my foot in my mouth sometimes.
Though I've had success with one schutz trainer, i dont pretend schutz or other schutz trainers would garner the same results.
The I've had a bad experience with one competition/conformation trainer, i dont believe other trainers or the field itself is represented by that experience.
01-23-2014 07:19 PM
von Bolen I did Schutz puppy obedience and after, the trainer and I felt that IPO was best for Xara.

no, both scenarios are not conflicted. I've never had an issue with training or trainers before now.
01-23-2014 04:28 PM
carmspack so you are doing bite work , but not schutzhund?
are both training scenarios conflicted, yourself and your mom.
a dog will sense tension, ambivalence , displeasure from you , that is conflict , not conducive to that trust and partnership.
maybe take a time out and have a good think about what you want to do so that the situation is not so confused .
01-23-2014 03:43 PM
von Bolen *by the way, my phones auto-correct sucks and I don't realize my typos and misspellings until its too late*
01-23-2014 03:30 PM
von Bolen And yes, I am very happy with due.Gols. But until I meant him and his method, I wasnt going to do sSchultz. And if I went to another Schultz trainer, I would probably experience the things that turned me off from it.
01-23-2014 03:25 PM
von Bolen
Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
By show world we're talking obedience trialing and Schutzhund trials as well. I can guarantee you that she's not training people for the conformation "show" ring. The little world we're talking about includes all people that trial/show their dogs.

You haven't been to enough Schutzhund trials if you think people aren't like this lady. They might not train in her methods, but they're definitely cut throat and want to win. The people going for world championships aren't just sitting back and thinking they know everything, they're constantly being challenged by others to do better.

I'm sorry...but your biases are so apparant. You sound like an extremely passionate person, but your love for one trainer based on what HE has told you is completely opposite of how you feel about another trainer. It's pretty clear to me that your current opinion is based on a very small sampling of training and education about training. Don't take offense to this, but you should just be way more open minded and not shoot people down because they're different. Like someone mentioned before...the moment you start making enemies in the dog world is the moment you start losing points and titles not based on your skill or performance but based on what you might've said two years ago.

You'd be surprised at who knows who and who talks with who in this world. Especially in a small area/region...these people all know each other, have heard of one another, and you're very likely to run into someone again.

Sorry...my biggest pet peeve about "working" people (and I'm one of them) is the ones that get into Schutzhund and start shooting down show lines (particularly American lines) without understanding anything about them. Biggest sign of this is the fact that your biggest issue with those dogs is "the way they walk" and the funny thing is, many of them don't walk as bad as we like to make them out to based on videos from the 80s. I get you, you have a working line, you think its the greatest thing since sliced bread, but guess what, the people winning AKC championships think the same thing of their dogs and can just as easily sit back and make fun of your dog's structure.
well, i definately wouldnt consider myself a Schultzhund person! I was actually against Schutz and still am, when it comes to the political side of things. And the same goes for show. And im definately not saying Schultz is perfect(Schultzhund tracking is completely un-natural). I guess what i meant to say earlier, i didnt really mean the show world, just the show people i see at the local Gshep club. People i personallh have come in contact with. Im still learning the ins and outs of everything, yes. But so far, i wluldnt say i belong to any field. Im taking what i feel is beneficial to my dogs trainings whereever i can get it and whoever i get it from. I have one person i go to for obediance and conformation, and another for Schutz/IPO. Regardless of how i come off, i am open minded. I guess i just have seen alot of things i feel arent for me.
01-23-2014 02:58 PM
carmspack oh I know who de Gols is -- basic operant conditioning ala Karen Pryor -- I have Lads before the Wind - first edition - Pryor's diary and later added her book On Behaviour.

this is "okay" - a good seminal idea -- well geared for a right or wrong choice -- I personally think that the "trust and relationship" building is more complex, nuanced.

My question was how do YOU employ this method taught by de Gols , which you are so lucky to have near to you by the way .

Your first post was pretty emotional -- and that is what needs to be curbed in training de Gols way.

How do I train my dogs? without leash -
01-23-2014 02:50 PM
Chris Wild IMO, by continuing to participate you are giving the impression to others at the class or who know where you train that you condone the training. The better, more "spiteful" thing to do would be to quit training there and tell this person exactly why. With luck, this will start a mass exodus from others in the class who are perhaps afraid to do this on their own.
01-23-2014 02:41 PM
martemchik
Quote:
Originally Posted by von Bolen View Post
It must be a show thing. I've yet to understand these people or their little world, but then again, I've yet to find anything about it that would be appealing to me. From what I've seen in the club and the comps I've been to, I just don't see myself ever being part of it. Some of it seems pretty impracticle, hence why I lean towards the working world. Plus in the working classes, I've yet to see Gshep's that walk on the whole hock of their back feet. THAT, I'm actually pretty appalled by just from seeing how those dogs walk. But that's just me.

not to down talk show dogs as a whole. Besides Xara, all my dogs have some working lines in them.
By show world we're talking obedience trialing and Schutzhund trials as well. I can guarantee you that she's not training people for the conformation "show" ring. The little world we're talking about includes all people that trial/show their dogs.

You haven't been to enough Schutzhund trials if you think people aren't like this lady. They might not train in her methods, but they're definitely cut throat and want to win. The people going for world championships aren't just sitting back and thinking they know everything, they're constantly being challenged by others to do better.

I'm sorry...but your biases are so apparant. You sound like an extremely passionate person, but your love for one trainer based on what HE has told you is completely opposite of how you feel about another trainer. It's pretty clear to me that your current opinion is based on a very small sampling of training and education about training. Don't take offense to this, but you should just be way more open minded and not shoot people down because they're different. Like someone mentioned before...the moment you start making enemies in the dog world is the moment you start losing points and titles not based on your skill or performance but based on what you might've said two years ago.

You'd be surprised at who knows who and who talks with who in this world. Especially in a small area/region...these people all know each other, have heard of one another, and you're very likely to run into someone again.

Sorry...my biggest pet peeve about "working" people (and I'm one of them) is the ones that get into Schutzhund and start shooting down show lines (particularly American lines) without understanding anything about them. Biggest sign of this is the fact that your biggest issue with those dogs is "the way they walk" and the funny thing is, many of them don't walk as bad as we like to make them out to based on videos from the 80s. I get you, you have a working line, you think its the greatest thing since sliced bread, but guess what, the people winning AKC championships think the same thing of their dogs and can just as easily sit back and make fun of your dog's structure.
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