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Thread: Prong Collar is not enough Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-22-2014 04:30 PM
R-a-m-b-o
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Taggart View Post
I don't think you need any prong, it wouldn't work even if you sharpened it with a file. Redirecting your dog's predatory drive works absolutely different way. The use of prong in such situations works like a wake up recall, makes your dog ready for a stronger resistance towards whatever controlls him. Don't forget that prong affects nervous system and makes your dog agitated. Used on a lazy, too much self-motivated, or simply too strong for you and too playful dog in situations when you cannot draw attention to yourself any other way could be the only way to direct the dog's attention. But, seems to me you want him to stop paying attention to something distracting. When parents constantly tell their children "Don't do this", finally their kids shut the door to their rooms in order to do what they want. You dog shut that door, he is doing what he wants, and prong collar works as a punishment, just stimulating his predatory drive.
You have to "explain" to your dog that cats and dogs are worthless prey. There are many techniques for that, but all of them start with one thing - you should completely ignore the object yourself. Raised voice (ordering any command) is wrong, there shouldn't be any command concerning his reactions, but something non-related like "Heel", "Sit", "Down", "Look at me", "play" - flash for him his ball and redirect his attention. Oh, no... You have to make him ball mad first.
Well, the ball on a string is his favourite toy so i guess we'll try it on our next walk.
01-21-2014 05:46 PM
Chip18
Quote:
Originally Posted by R-a-m-b-o View Post
... is when another dog walks
next to us and start snarling and barking at my dog, .
My mistake?
01-21-2014 05:39 PM
David Taggart I don't think you need any prong, it wouldn't work even if you sharpened it with a file. Redirecting your dog's predatory drive works absolutely different way. The use of prong in such situations works like a wake up recall, makes your dog ready for a stronger resistance towards whatever controlls him. Don't forget that prong affects nervous system and makes your dog agitated. Used on a lazy, too much self-motivated, or simply too strong for you and too playful dog in situations when you cannot draw attention to yourself any other way could be the only way to direct the dog's attention. But, seems to me you want him to stop paying attention to something distracting. When parents constantly tell their children "Don't do this", finally their kids shut the door to their rooms in order to do what they want. You dog shut that door, he is doing what he wants, and prong collar works as a punishment, just stimulating his predatory drive.
You have to "explain" to your dog that cats and dogs are worthless prey. There are many techniques for that, but all of them start with one thing - you should completely ignore the object yourself. Raised voice (ordering any command) is wrong, there shouldn't be any command concerning his reactions, but something non-related like "Heel", "Sit", "Down", "Look at me", "play" - flash for him his ball and redirect his attention. Oh, no... You have to make him ball mad first.
01-21-2014 04:54 PM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by R-a-m-b-o View Post
Hi guys, recently i noticed that my dog's prong collar is not that effective.
When i'm giving a correction he's not even feeling it.
And since he wears the prong he got half of his neck shaved.(Like it pulled a lot of hair from around his neck)
Any recommendations for a strong correction collar that won't shave his neck like the prong does?
(Not E-Collar or the standard choke collar)

Hmmm, why communication, grammar and punctuation are so important.

"Hi guys, recently i noticed that my dog's prong collar is not that effective." This statement gives the impression that the collar is not effective, thus it is being used and has lost its charm.

"When i'm giving a correction he's not even feeling it." This statement gives the impression that you are looking for your dog to yelp or otherwise indicate that he indeed has felt the correction. Which gives others the impression that the dog has been 'yanked and cranked' until he is work-hardened.

"And since he wears the prong he got half of his neck shaved.(Like it pulled a lot of hair from around his neck)" At first, here I thought that since we started using the prong collar, the dog had a hot spot or injury and needed to have his neck half-shaved. (My pup had a hot spot and got her neck half-shaved.) But the partial sentence within the parenthesis seems to clarify that the collar itself is causing the hair loss.

"Any recommendations for a strong correction collar that won't shave his neck like the prong does?" Now for this statement, are we asking for a collar that can deliver strong corrections, or a strong collar that can deliver a correction?

Because it sounds like the story has changed now, and the collar is only used for minutes in the day, and the only used in the case of a dog snarling at the dog or a cat jumping out, I am thinking that it must be how the original statements were worded that gave us all the wrong impression.

I really do want to know though, are you looking for a collar that can deliver strong corrections, or are you looking for a strong collar that can deliver a correction, in whichever case that will not affect the dog's hair around the neck?

You might want to try a chain martingale. You do not want a choke chain -- people have told you that they can injure your dog, well they can. If you choke your dog out with one until it is unconscious as some trainers used to do, it can cause serious damage. They can also be used effectively and safely. But if you are looking for your dog to indicate he has felt the correction, it is probably not the right collar for you.

A chain martingale, with small links -- think horses, the thick bit is easier on the horse, the thin bit gives more control. Small links will put the same pressure on a smaller area and will deliver more of a correction than the same action with larger links.

Martingales are not necessarily correction collars. They are no-slip collars. But they are designed just like a prong collar, without the prongs. They can only tighten so far, so you cannot choke-out a dog with them. And the pressure will tighten all around the neck like a prong.

Usually martingales have a small chain or nylon area that does the tightening/loosening -- the chain noise is desireable and lets the dog know that he is pulling, and a larger area that is fixed around the dog's neck, usually made of leather or nylon. There are some made in all chain though. And if you are concerned with the wear around the dog's neck, chain might be easier on the dog's neck that nylon or even leather.
01-21-2014 04:00 PM
R-a-m-b-o
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
You have either given enough nagging corrections with the prong that the dog is willing to work through it, or the prong is raising the excitement level of the dog when a correction is given.

At this point, I would go one of 3 ways. I would either teach leash pressure with the prong to the dog so I could steer him away from the stimulus without giving a correction, go to the e-collar and use the Lou Castle Game Chasing (crittering) protocol, or go to a flat collar and work on LAT.

Whatever you choose, doing what you are currently doing is not going to fix the situation, and getting a bigger hammer for the dog isn't going to fix it either. You have to adjust your training to the dog, not necessarily the tool you are using.
Usually i'm not pulling on the collar, only on certain circumstances as i mentioned before.
I mostly use verbal cues, and the prong collar is the so called "Hammer" as you mentioned before.
It's on him when we walk, but i use it only as my "Last resort".
(And as the last resort it's not working as i expect.)
01-21-2014 03:50 PM
Msmaria
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winners View Post
You have either given enough nagging corrections with the prong that the dog is willing to work through it, or the prong is raising the excitement level of the dog when a correction is given.

At this point, I would go one of 3 ways. I would either teach leash pressure with the prong to the dog so I could steer him away from the stimulus without giving a correction, go to the e-collar and use the Lou Castle Game Chasing (crittering) protocol, or go to a flat collar and work on LAT.

Whatever you choose, doing what you are currently doing is not going to fix the situation, and getting a bigger hammer for the dog isn't going to fix it either. You have to adjust your training to the dog, not necessarily the tool you are using.
This is exactly the same advice our police K9 trainer told another person in our class. He referred him to a martingale collar or flat with stronger corrections and no more nagging with the prong. The dog is doing so much better in class and when the correction is given the dog looks at the handler like "oh sorry, im paying attention now."
01-21-2014 03:48 PM
R-a-m-b-o
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
Why are you walking next to another dog? Not trying to be funny my guys have never walked with "another dog" only each other.
When a strange dog walks infront of us(Better?), i never wrote that i walked with another dog while walking with my dogs.
So please instead of just comment the first thing in your head pay attention to what i write, i can't comment on every single message people write here, it's not a chat.
01-21-2014 03:41 PM
R-a-m-b-o
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshep View Post
You aren't leaving the prong on all the time are you?
We only use the prong for like 20min a day MAX, on noon walk and at the evening.
Now i flip the prong to the other side without the spikes and we'll see what's going on with the hair loss on the neck.
01-21-2014 03:37 PM
Chip18 Why are you walking next to another dog? Not trying to be funny my guys have never walked with "another dog" only each other.
01-21-2014 03:27 PM
R-a-m-b-o
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
So you are correcting him when another male looks at him? That sometimes will backfire and he'll see the correction as coming from that other dog, not what he was doing.
Tame him? You mean train him, I hope!
There are exercises to work your dog instead of correcting. LOOK AT THAT(LAT) is worth trying. Redirect, be proactive set the dog up to succeed. Try to have him be engaged with you so he'll be more neutral to what is going on around him(carry high value treats or favorite toy that he only gets on walks or in his training sessions).
My meaning in "gives him the bad look" is when another dog walks
next to us and start snarling and barking at my dog, so i'm sorry if i didn't explain myself properly because i wrote it after i got back from work and i'm writing this comment while i just got back from work too.
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