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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-07-2014 12:25 AM
nicholas jones He is Czech and Belgium shepherd. When I talk about environment he will bite the tug pull, then when you let him carry the trophy he will see a bird and want to chase it, haha! I was just told he needs to see more and different things! I bring him everywhere I can with me, I didn't realize how much we as humans are creatures of habit(tending to go to same places). So, lately I have been taking him all over and doing a little obedience. He listens with out food. Then I give him time to sniff and play around. I was just curious if there where ways I guess to focus and bring out his prey drive, that would not damage the training! Ex. Playing ball with him. I also don't throw the ball till he drops it at my feet, sometimes he pushes the ball into my open hand to play tug, which I will for a little but I make sure he wins.


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01-06-2014 05:01 PM
DaniFani Carm, lol I see now....that would be terrible (teasing the dog to bring out the 'spit and fire' but I see how you could have interpreted that...glad I could clarify). I just meant teasing for the toy with a barrier of some kind to prevent the dog from getting the toy, building up frustration, and the drive for the toy.

I am also curious about the "distraction" in the dog as well, and saying it's "typical puppy behavior" as OP said. My guy is only 3.5 months, and even in highly distracting places still fully engages with me, especially for treats lol, and *most of the time for the toy. I have seen dogs under both scenarios you describe, "highly stimulated by prey" and "highly concerned out of fear." Depending on which of those it was, the training required would be different, I'd assume. I think in either situation, the handler needs to become more interesting than the stimulation of the environment.

What are your views on playing ball ie "fetch" where the ball completely leaves the handler, and playing tug where the dog is interacting with the handler. I would think tug would be better at building a relationship because the dog is interacting with the handler through the whole play...not only looking at the handler as a dispenser for the ball, and the ball is the actual fun, not so much interacting with the handler.

I'm only being nit picky about the ball because it appears there is a lack of bond/connection with handler, so it would seem that you'd have to be hyper aware of the type of play you are engaging in. If you already have that bond, or the dog naturally feels that way about the handler, then I don't think fetch vs tug is that big of a deal. Only speaking in terms of this particular situation.

ETA: Thinking maybe it doesn't really matter why he is reacting to the environment when it comes to how to make the handler more attractive...I would think the why matters more in the sense of "will this dog be capable of protection"...a dog in fear of the environment wouldn't be able to be a strong protection dog, probably shouldn't be one at all...one that's just easily stimulated by the environment in the area of "prey" may be able to do protection?? I don't know.
01-06-2014 09:03 AM
carmspack DaniFani , see I misunderstood your recommendation also . lol.
I knew he wanted PP . When you said to "Tease the dog while it's in it's crate...." I was visualising the dog being harassed , to bring out the spit and fire in him , frustrated , as some people do with table training .
Playing ball is a positive dog and handler connector , can be used to form obedience.

I'd be curious to know more about the dog being distracted . The trainer saw "something" . Is the dog confident, or too easily stimulated by the environment either by concern or prey excitement?
"(being distracted by things in the environment). The trainer stated to start bring him to different places to get him more acclimated to environments"

for PP environmental stability is core
01-06-2014 05:06 AM
DaniFani Sorry, missed the personal protection thing. I was thinking only oh building drive for tug with the teasing in the crate. I disagree that it will create conflict, especially if the dog is balanced and his training is balanced. However, this is why you should talk to you trainer about this. His plan may be completely different based on what he is seeing in the dog that us Internet folks can't see.
01-06-2014 04:09 AM
David Winners
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas jones View Post
One thing I do, is use two balls. he always bring it back to try and play keep away, but I won't throw the second ball until he drops the first to me. You are right that he wants me to get him use to environments, I am following what he says but I don't think there is anything wrong with seeing other peoples training ideas. I run stuff by him before I do it! I'm new to this stuff. So, I just try to submerge myself with knowledge.


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2 ball is great, but don't bribe him back with the 2nd ball. It shouldn't come out until he drops the first ball. You want to run the game, not him.

David Winners
01-06-2014 03:56 AM
carmspack out of curiousity what is his pedigree?
what do you mean by personal protection?
01-06-2014 03:39 AM
nicholas jones One thing I do, is use two balls. he always bring it back to try and play keep away, but I won't throw the second ball until he drops the first to me. You are right that he wants me to get him use to environments, I am following what he says but I don't think there is anything wrong with seeing other peoples training ideas. I run stuff by him before I do it! I'm new to this stuff. So, I just try to submerge myself with knowledge.


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01-06-2014 03:04 AM
carmspack The trainer said "The trainer stated to start bring him to different places to get him more acclimated to environments"

That is what is most important for personal protection .

Prey emphasis is for sport work . A good PP dog may never see a bite in his life - but when he does it has to be for the right reason and with conviction . Bond with the dog . Do not play and have conflict . This "Tease the dog while it's in it's crate...." I do not agree with at all.
No conflict or game with the owner .
01-06-2014 01:10 AM
DaniFani Bill, well I must be in the olden days, because my guys favorite thing right now is a burlap sack tied to the end of a rope lol!

The best thing to do is stick with your trainer's program. If I was a trainer it would be exasperating to have a "student" going on forums and trying to get ideas from who know's who, that don't know your dog, and getting advice. Your trainer may want your to focus more on building the dog's confidence right now.

Stop throwing the ball....ball leaves your hand, dog takes off = no interaction with you. Talk to your trainer about a bitework harness, back tying, and teasing. Tease the dog while it's in it's crate....start small in places where the dog displays attention and ignores distraction (at home or in backyard). Make sure you balance between teasing and allowing a grip/win....too many grips, game isn't as fun, too few, the dog doesn't believe he'll get it and he may not try as hard. However, talk to your trainer about all this. What did he tell you that you should be doing at home?

How's the dog's food drive in different areas (some people think their dog has amazing food/ball drive, but then they take the dog to a new area, outside the home, and the dog could care less about food or toy)??
01-06-2014 12:56 AM
bill Does he like the tug? In the old days people used burlap sacks! If he likes tug play with him;
make him miss the tug sometimes; don't feed it to him! When you finish put the tug away; don't let him keep it. Good luck make it fun! Bill
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