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Thread: First few walks with pinch collar, advice/opinions Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-03-2014 07:01 AM
David Winners Here are my favorite prong collar vids. I like Michael Ellis' approach for a strong dog, but for anything that may approach a nervy dog, I use the Tyler Muto method.

Starting A Dog On A Prong Collar With Conversational Leash Work | Tyler Muto Dogmanship - YouTube
Conversational Leash Work - YouTube
01-03-2014 05:47 AM
Baillif When you layer negative reinforcement over existing positively trained commands there is always initial confusion. It is normal and it quickly goes away. Just remain tactful and get through it.
01-03-2014 05:42 AM
Castlemaid Some dogs are real Drama Queens and will act like they are dying at the slightest excuse. Especially younger dogs. Know your dog, and work accordingly
01-03-2014 05:00 AM
Baillif Having a prong on snug really isn't all that important if you are using it correctly. Just be tactful with it.
01-03-2014 02:27 AM
xtramile So just watched a few of Michael Elliss' videos on pressure and pinch collars. Good stuff. My one question being that I was under the impression a dog should not vocalize while being corrected/pressured, otherwise you are hurting them too much. Is that not correct? In several of the videos a shepherd the size and age of Drago was yipping and yelping quite a bit.

We did two minutes of training mirroring the pressure avoidance stuff, but more gradual and more forgiving. I can definitely see where it has advantages. Drago pretty quickly picked up a "stand" command that we have not been able to do with marker and "follow the food" type training. He was even a little confused, his body language and face said, "hold up we have trained and everything before, but this is different and I dont think I like it." So we did 10 minutes of normal reward training to calm him down and end on a good note.

Can doing this pressure avoidance training cause trust issues? Or stress the dog too much? Our boy is pretty laid back, and being someone who struggles with turning stress off personally I would not wish that upon my dog.
01-03-2014 12:49 AM
xtramile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castlemaid View Post
You may want to go back and read a few more posts from David, might shed some light on the issue.

Though David is right that using a prong to give corrections to stop a fear reaction is only going to make things worse. They can associate the correction with what makes them scared, and give them even more reason to be scared.

But you are using the prong to control pulling, and are careful not to give corrections when he is reacting with nervousness to something. Instead taking your time to work him through the rough spot with patience and positive association. Unless your boy is always acting fearful of everything (and he doesn't sound like he is), then he should be fine.

Thank you for your reply. I figured everything was fine but would hate to accidentally be doing damaging things to my little guy.
01-03-2014 12:44 AM
xtramile
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammaD View Post
IMO it doesn't sound at all like he's got a problem, just an alert GSD. And using the prong is not a problem unless a person does it wrong, so relax and continue on. There are some video clips on youtube of Michael Ellis training with a prong (google Michael Ellis leash pressure and you should be able to find them) for some tips.

I much prefer prongs to headcollars for a multitude of reasons. Personal preference.

Oh, and I do have a reactive dog and proper use of the prong has actually had a calming effect. The combination of self correction for unwanted behavior and marker and reward for wanted behavior has been very effective. *edited to add I strive mightily to work Huxley under threshold - I do not just go out and push him up against the things he fears and then let the prong engage! But when he does react, the prong engaging makes him sit at my side and look to me and then I can react accordingly myself. After being taken down and dragged a few feet I appreciate the gentle assist toward control the collar affords me.

I also use a dog back pack (this one - Palisades Pack? - Ultimate Backcountry Dog Pack) because I have found it helps Huxley settle - this is for walks and hiking, not, obviously, when we are training or competing.

I will definitely look into Michael Eliss' prong video, surprised I have not seen it yet he has been one of my main go to sources on dogs!

I know what you mean about the combination of self correction and marker training. Using this new tool seems to really have helped open up a line of communication between the two of us. I can quickly convey the behavior I dislike, and with the marker training we had been doing since day one, he acts completely different. He seems to have more of a sense of working and actively thinking as apposed to just walking.
01-02-2014 03:56 PM
Springbrz My girl has a history of acting fearful or "skittish" as you put it to new things. Usually inanimate objects like trash cans, traffic cones, wet floor signs. What I have done is to walk slowly to the object and touch it myself. I never force my girl to it, I just casually bring her with me to the offending object. Once I touch it she sniffs it and we move on. Next time we come across the same/similar object she seems not to care about it.
If it is something or someone where this can't be done, then we do as you have done, focus on a command such as sit, heel and move past it.
01-02-2014 03:51 PM
GrammaD
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtramile View Post
Whats the progression to making them nervous and hypo reactive? Just looking to understand. And would you maintain this if he very rarely exhibits this behavior? It is mostly when something new or out of place is on a walk (happened maybe 3 times in the 8 months since we got him)
IMO it doesn't sound at all like he's got a problem, just an alert GSD. And using the prong is not a problem unless a person does it wrong, so relax and continue on. There are some video clips on youtube of Michael Ellis training with a prong (google Michael Ellis leash pressure and you should be able to find them) for some tips.

I much prefer prongs to headcollars for a multitude of reasons. Personal preference.

Oh, and I do have a reactive dog and proper use of the prong has actually had a calming effect. The combination of self correction for unwanted behavior and marker and reward for wanted behavior has been very effective. *edited to add I strive mightily to work Huxley under threshold - I do not just go out and push him up against the things he fears and then let the prong engage! But when he does react, the prong engaging makes him sit at my side and look to me and then I can react accordingly myself. After being taken down and dragged a few feet I appreciate the gentle assist toward control the collar affords me.

I also use a dog back pack (this one - Palisades Pack? - Ultimate Backcountry Dog Pack) because I have found it helps Huxley settle - this is for walks and hiking, not, obviously, when we are training or competing.
01-02-2014 03:44 PM
Castlemaid You may want to go back and read a few more posts from David, might shed some light on the issue.

Though David is right that using a prong to give corrections to stop a fear reaction is only going to make things worse. They can associate the correction with what makes them scared, and give them even more reason to be scared.

But you are using the prong to control pulling, and are careful not to give corrections when he is reacting with nervousness to something. Instead taking your time to work him through the rough spot with patience and positive association. Unless your boy is always acting fearful of everything (and he doesn't sound like he is), then he should be fine.
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