|Today 10:32 AM|
experience working with a person who had gone that route of changing proteins beginning with the "usual suspects" then lamb , duck, turkey, rabbit , bush baby , ostrich, kangaroo and finally llama and alpaca .
Each and every protein he moved to was "good!" for a short time .
The symptom was treated but not the cause
He had no fix . The problem or cause was that the dog needed to break down the protein that he was getting . Break down the food he was getting . The reason why he had a temporary relief was because the dogs body was not responding to large undigested protein molecules and other indigested substances which can cross the intestinal lining and enter the bloodstream. There they will be treated like any other foreign invader , bacteria , virus, rogue cells , by an activated immune response , mild at first then being hypersensitized .
The formula from the vet , using Iams Vet
Oat Flour, Kangaroo, Canola Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E, and Citric Acid), Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Fish Oil (preserved with Ethoxyquin), Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Biotin, Rosemary Extract, Thiamine Mononitrate (souce of Vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Folic Acid, Cobalt Carbonate
may have a greater volume of indigestible fibre than kangaroo meat .
Beet pulp has no nutritional value . It does firm stools, and it feeds a healthy beneficial gut flora -- if that is in order - acting as a pre biotic for the probiotic bacteria.
Few years back it would have been peanut shells.
Oat flour like beet pulp helps create nice stools.
But so does optimized digestion , using digestive enzymes to help the process , without filler which takes place of more expensive and necessary proteins.
If you want or need to feed kangaroo maybe a better route would be to source the raw meat from an exotic or specialty butcher ?
My concern would be the canola meal . I am guessing they are using it because it, like kangaroo, is a novelty item which would not initially elicit a strong allergic response ? Little to no nutritive value.
Used as a farm feed for cattle, swine, farmed fish , chickens.
This is controversial as an ingredient . I don't even use canola oil as a cooking oil. The big problems is GMO.
I live in a community that pre-subdivisions was blazing yellow in the fall with fields of canola - rapeseed . Big signs telling you which patches were fertilized , or treated with what . Pioneer test plots gathering data on crop yields . GMO has to be identified.
The canola meal is a by product of the oil extraction - done by use of solvents.
Can you think of a better way to feed your dog?
|Today 08:30 AM|
I would like to tell you ALL how helpful you have been! It is nice to have somewhere to turn in times like these! I am sorry that all of you had to go through this but am happy that everyone is so kind to offer the solutions from their experience and more suggestions to Gibby and anyone else who is experiencing these types of issues!!
Gibby- I hope that Panzer continues to improve!
Just wanted you all to know how kind you are for sharing!!
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|03-07-2014 11:26 AM|
My GSD is also 2 years and has bad skin reaction for over a year now. It started when we went away for 3 weeks and put him in a dog hotel. He developed dermodectic mange for which he was treated. Since then it has been a constant battle. We determined he was allergic to chicken, and switched to a turkey and duck kibble. The kibble we used was fairly high end - Acana/Orijen and the holistic Now! for large breeds. But he was still scratching and very itchy.
Towards the middle/end of November we switched to RAW [BCR which is a very good brand] and started with beef. He seemed to improve then went downhill from there - he lost about 3-4 kg and we were feeding 3%+ of his weight. He also developed diarhea and started vomitting. He was insanely itchy.
The vet told us we need to give him something he has never been exposed to and in North America that is kangaroo. Finding affordable pure raw kangaroo in Ontario Canada is impossible...So then we moved back to kibble - a veterinary diet - IAMS Kangaroo. He is still itchy, but the fur is starting to grow back on his ears and the change is OMG remarkable. He has got his drive back. And this is after less than 3 weeks! I do sport scenting with him and the folks I do it with say he is a different dog - even I can't believe how well he is working!
There is another brand in the US that makes a kangaroo based food - but that company has been subject to numerous recalls - so did not want to risk that.
Much as I hate science diets and think they are really poor quality, I will give my dog anything at this stage that will make him feel/get better.
One thing we did notice though, is that when the temperature drops to -5C and below he gets more itchy.
If your dog does not improve, RAW may not be working for him. I would honestly recommend you trying the IAMS Kangaroo - it requires a vet script to get - it's freaking expensive [about CAD 112 for a 13 kg bag], but worth it if it works for your dog.
Just as an FYI - my vet was (1) kangaroo (2) cook his meals [but the recommended recipes used beef and chicken] and (3) vegetarian.
RAW doesn't work for all dogs - during my research I found that the most common food sensitivities in dogs are:
beef, dairy products, chicken, lamb, fish, chicken eggs, corn, wheat, and soy....
Some-one earlier in the post recommended you do a food sensitivity check, I would highly recommend that if you want to stick with RAW. And I would not do the common ones first - I would do something like rabbit or bison. What my vet told me is true though, the dog food industry are now also creating a wide variety of dog treats - I know I gave Thor rabbit ears, bison and wild boar treats in the past. That counts as being exposed to that food...
Just my 2 cents.
PS: the correct name for the kangaroo food is IamsŪ Veterinary Formula™ Skin & Coat Plus Response™ KO
|03-07-2014 01:14 AM|
|gibby913||Gator as an update Panzer is still having spells of red/itchy patches. It seems to be getting better but very slowly now. He did start oozing some yellowy discharge but not much. Using Nyx's experience as a guideline I'm assuming this is a sign of progress.|
|03-03-2014 08:30 PM|
It's been a couple of weeks. How about an update
How is our Panzer doing?
|02-17-2014 05:15 PM|
Oh my Goodness. Promising post!
That is a HUGE improvement so far.
I will keep my fingers and toes crossed for Panzer.
Just be vigilant in the steps you are taking.
Just remember it is a process. Think how long he has been suffering and now it all has to reverse out. And healing often takes longer than getting sick.
And I would definitely try to keep a log of what is going in him, how much and when. So if there are any set backs you can try to detect what it was that was recently introduced to his system.
|02-16-2014 02:35 PM|
met again with my friends yesterday , both in the medical fields - and another with a chemistry background -- .
Originally Posted by carmspack
" The last shot Fraoch got was 1.5 ml of Depomedrol with the 1Duolocillin LA CANINE. The cost of both is fairly expensive . It does help though do us worth the effort" and a shampoo with " the shampoo is either one of UBA vet or Virbac epi soothe shampoo and cream rinse is Virbac epi soothe cream rinse. "
I can't tell on my phone, so I think I am quoting something you were quoting, my phone messes up things a lot, but.... Just to clarify and hipefully help, DepoMedrol is CHEAP, and is the Duolcillan LA. It's just penicillin. Like should be 2 pennies a CC.
Just don't want your friend to get ripped off. I am glad it's working. I must say though. That I find it hilarious that with all the new fangled high end medicine, referrals, allergy tests, yadda yadda, the thing that helping is good old steroids and penicillin.
gsdsar , I questioned them about the depromedrol which is not an antibiotic penicillin but a corticosteroid. Duplocillin is a long lasting penicillin.
Expensive . yes , here it is , where these drugs are controlled .
which leads me to a new thread ..... new skin problems .. where I will reference this post and this thread to continue a discussion .
|02-16-2014 02:46 AM|
|gibby913||Nyx, his skin was red and irritated around the hairline as you said and felt hot. I continued rubbing CO and Bag Balm over his skin and as an update he stopped chewing for two days now! His skin wasn't bright red today and his energy and mood was awesome today. Hopefully it stays this way. Sorry for the lengthy delay in between posts......I'm a bit of an internet flake.|
|02-15-2014 12:24 AM|
|my boy diesel||
zymox is excellent proven product for ears
and now makes all sorts of
skin products as well
i'm a believer after our dog
had a yeast inf. in ear and
zymox healed it
used it for the full 2 weeks
and it's completely cleared
your dog has what is called malassezia pachydermatis
this zymox would fix that
plus if it is a horrid skin infection like mrsa
it would take care of that as well
|02-15-2014 12:01 AM|
even Selsun blue fortified is good for yeast infections (fungal)
Olive leaf powder is anti fungal . Add to diet .
You could have used zymox for the ears - probably the best product .
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