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Thread: How did you teach your dog "NO" or "Stop that!"Basically to quit the current behavior Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-15-2013 11:50 PM
Merciel
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGirlT View Post
She "roo's" or "humfs" or "whines" or snaps the air when i tell her to do something she doesnt want to do or if i follow through with a command that she does not want to do. Any idea on how i can redirect that type of behavior if i can?
I just say "fine, then don't do it" and give my end-of-work cue (which is "all done!") and leave the room (or, if I'm somewhere I can't do this -- like if I'm at the dog park and one of the dogs blows off a recall -- I just pretend to be intensely interested in anything that is not the dog). That's it, practice time is over, no more fun interaction with me for a while.

This is a situational response: I use it when the dog understands what I'm asking and is capable of doing it (not in physical pain, not confused, not too stressed to comply) and just doesn't want to, AND there is nothing in the environment that could be self-rewarding. (If there is, then I put the dog up or take it out of that environment, because ignoring me will never be the fun choice. The fun choice is always working with me. Therefore if ignoring me could be the fun choice in a given situation, I take steps to ensure that doesn't happen.)

Because I try hard to build up the value of work and interaction, that is the only punishment I need to make that protest behavior go away very quickly. It doesn't really take a long time for this to become effective; it's more about the effort that you put into creating and reinforcing repetitions of it. I can usually get the foster dogs to respond the same way within two or three days of arriving in my home, at least in low-distraction scenarios (i.e., inside the house when nobody is playing). If working with you is fun, and being a butthead about it makes that fun go away, then most dogs will stop being buttheads.

Actually my more common problem is that they won't shut up about pestering me to work with them. Pongu is standing behind my chair right now giving me the laser stare and grumbling.

And so I will go reward him with a little bit of work, because that type of pushiness is something that I very much do want to reinforce.
12-15-2013 10:19 PM
VTGirlT
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiedad View Post
when you say "no" or "stop that" in the begining you're redirecting
the dog (you're pulling him/her away from something). in doing so
you're teaching him/her to stop doing something on command ("no"
or "stop that" as the dog gets older he knows when he/she hears
"no" or "stop that" they stop the current action. i also think a dog takes
"no" or "stop that" as a reprimand (light correction).
That make sense it being a light correction. Perhaps she does not care for those?

[quote=Packen;4659249]Best to teach and proof an easier command than NO. This way when there is time to say NO, you give the known command like "down" or "sit" or "kennel" or "place" or "focus" or "heel" etc etc.

What I mean to say is that it is waay easier to teach what the dog can do versus what the dog cannot do.[/QUOTE]

After i read this i started to do this with my sisters dog.. Because her dogs jumps and tries to steal food from hands, and it works with her. But Zelda is my attitude girl! She "roo's" or "humfs" or "whines" or snaps the air when i tell her to do something she doesnt want to do or if i follow through with a command that she does not want to do. Any idea on how i can redirect that type of behavior if i can?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merciel View Post
yep

Figure out what you do want her to do and then mark/reinforce that.

For example, for nail clipping, you might teach her to give you one paw at a time and stand still until you're done. My dogs do this for foot wiping when they come in from walks (I have not taught them to do it for nail clipping because I take them to the groomer for that -- I'm just a wimp about clipping Pongu's nails because they're solid black and I don't want to quick him -- but the same principles should apply).

With mouthing, I will give a verbal "NO," sometimes accompanied by me withdrawing all attention and interaction, depending on the severity of the transgression. Other times I'll lean forward a little to crowd into their space, which gets them to back off (and usually sit).

If my dogs were still puppies then I'd redirect them to approved bitey objects, but they're not so I don't. I think that varies by dog, though. Some dogs might benefit from being redirected. Mine don't seem to have any interest in it so I don't do that with them.
I have been following that advice now! It's like a light bulb moment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLab View Post
So what's the correction if the dog doesn't comply with your wishes??



Getting a dog to give the paw for nail clipping would be an achievement.

I would think this is more stressful as the dog can escape easier or resist. Fact is dogs don't like their nails cut.

What I do is teach the dogs to be on their sides and have them used to being turned over and inspected and treated if necessary and have ears cleaned and nails cut. This can be different with different dogs. Some will resist and need to be introduced to it slowly.

To get a dog used to having nails cut I will start by rubbing the dogs nails and then scratch them a bit and stretch the foot and leg so over time it becomes desensitized to touch there. Also have the clipper noise as that can also shock the dog. Same with a hair clippers or a scissors for cutting hair.


If a dog doesn't know what no means I will hold it by the chin and give it a slap on the nose and say no. It is crude but it works. I will use this if a dog is intent on biting something after I say off. I wouldn't redirect behavior if the dog was biting me as this is like a reward for that behavior. When the dog got used to offing then I would reward.

In your case you can stop nurturing excitement and nurture calmness. The dog biting is excited behavior. So through body language and slowing everything down you can stop it.

My girl Bullmastiff mix was always biting my other dog lab mix on the neck and pinning him to the floor. She also liked to chase swans. I developed the Irish e collar for this and simply threw a stone at her rump. Fact was she was off leash and knew I couldn't catch her so the stone bridged the gap.
I have been playing with her toes everyday recently, she still gets whiny about me touching her back paws, but is better than before.. i also have been rubbing Mushers secret into her paws before walks which i think she likes for some reason! So i'm sure that will help desensitize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanketback View Post
Everything Zelda is doing (air snaps, mouthing, etc.) is all communication, hopefully communicating in such a way that you can understand what she's trying to say. You're on the right track - you know the frustrated air snaps mean she needs to get out and burn off energy, you know the mouth hug mean she's excited...etc. Now you just have to channel that into a language that you both can understand.

"No" is something that I use with a new dog/puppy right away - I know some people don't use it, but that's what's right for them, not me. Some things I never have to use the word for, because some things are just too much of a risk and I manage the situation instead, like rifling through the garbage. I NEVER leave anything in the garbage that I'd regret my dogs swallowing - so any cooked bones are always put in the freezer until garbage day. This makes the garbage can pretty unappealing. My puppy did show an interest in it when he was very young, so I got in the habit of pouring vinegar onto the garbage when I used it....problem solved. It's lidded too, so that helps.

"No" in my home is combined with physical removal of whatever it is I'm trying to stop - I'm not a chin smacker, and I disagree with that advice - but I will body block (say, for counters) or push the dog away from something (plant chewing, pestering other pets) and after my dog knows what "no" means, I use a different word to let the dog know they're actually being disobedient. So I'm not constantly saying "no" and the dog doesn't tune me out.

I think you should reconsider the leash in the house, because that's the easiest way of communicating to cease whatever she's doing, to draw her away from her target. But I wouldn't use the walking leash, since it excites her. Get a cheapo dollar store one and it will work just fine.
I'm not sure if Zelda is just constantly seeing what she can get away with and she understands the language of no? Like, when she grabs something that dropped on the floor. She picks it up and i notice and i say spit! I would say half the time she will drop on site, the other half she picks it up, tail in the air and runs away with it. As soon as i get up though, she drops it on the floor and runs.
Body block is something that Patricia McConnel talks about in her book. Which i've been attempting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myah's Mom View Post
I think, in addition to all that has been said here, is that it is SO important that the dog receives a sturdy, clear praise for things done right (not crazy, positive reactions) and that you move away from the food rewards. (btw, in my opinion, food rewards are great for teaching, but then your praise should be what they long for).

When it is very CLEAR what your reaction is when they are behaving well, then a reprimand/unsatisfied reaction from you will stop them in their tracks pretty well.

Sometimes, with dogs AND people, we only speak up when something is wrong, even though inside we are happy with the good behavior/interactions. We must speak up, because you gain a lot more ground with positive feedback.

And with dogs, this is so delightfully clear to them.
This is very true, it is easier to see her flaws. But she is a great dog and has many positive things to her, which is great to remind myself and to give her praise for her good things that she does!

Thanks for the great advice everyone, clearly i need to work on this more..

But defiantly would be nice to give her a really long hike or run.. But her hips will not let her.. I think a lot of her mouthiness is having pent of energy and frustration because of it. So in a sense i understand as to why she is the way she is.. poor girl.

But i did look up what some of you had to say, and Sophia Yin really seemed to be similar to what a lot of you were talking about, with the nail clipping and what not.. So i found her website and will go from there i guess!
12-13-2013 12:49 AM
Myah's Mom I think, in addition to all that has been said here, is that it is SO important that the dog receives a sturdy, clear praise for things done right (not crazy, positive reactions) and that you move away from the food rewards. (btw, in my opinion, food rewards are great for teaching, but then your praise should be what they long for).

When it is very CLEAR what your reaction is when they are behaving well, then a reprimand/unsatisfied reaction from you will stop them in their tracks pretty well.

Sometimes, with dogs AND people, we only speak up when something is wrong, even though inside we are happy with the good behavior/interactions. We must speak up, because you gain a lot more ground with positive feedback.

And with dogs, this is so delightfully clear to them.
12-12-2013 11:34 PM
doggiedad when you say "no" or "stop that" in the begining you're redirecting
the dog (you're pulling him/her away from something). in doing so
you're teaching him/her to stop doing something on command ("no"
or "stop that" as the dog gets older he knows when he/she hears
"no" or "stop that" they stop the current action. i also think a dog takes
"no" or "stop that" as a reprimand (light correction).
12-12-2013 09:19 PM
Deno No is the first command all 6 of my German Shepherds learned. In the early stages it should be thrown like a verbal brick with the body language to match.

If this doesn't work, reinforce it with an ecollar. In no time at all NO will mean NO.

It's been my experience that any unwanted behavior can be stopped fast with an ecollar with very FEW corrections.

It is clear you don't have her respect at this time. Dogs are just like children, they learn quick what they can get away with.

The NILIF program is common sense that when enforced has amazing results.
12-12-2013 09:01 PM
Packen
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLab View Post
So what's the correction if the dog doesn't comply with your wishes??
That depends on what your training plan is for that particular dog and how well he understands the exercise. The correction could be as simple as withholding the reward or as complex as NEPOPO.
12-12-2013 10:35 AM
Blanketback Everything Zelda is doing (air snaps, mouthing, etc.) is all communication, hopefully communicating in such a way that you can understand what she's trying to say. You're on the right track - you know the frustrated air snaps mean she needs to get out and burn off energy, you know the mouth hug mean she's excited...etc. Now you just have to channel that into a language that you both can understand.

"No" is something that I use with a new dog/puppy right away - I know some people don't use it, but that's what's right for them, not me. Some things I never have to use the word for, because some things are just too much of a risk and I manage the situation instead, like rifling through the garbage. I NEVER leave anything in the garbage that I'd regret my dogs swallowing - so any cooked bones are always put in the freezer until garbage day. This makes the garbage can pretty unappealing. My puppy did show an interest in it when he was very young, so I got in the habit of pouring vinegar onto the garbage when I used it....problem solved. It's lidded too, so that helps.

"No" in my home is combined with physical removal of whatever it is I'm trying to stop - I'm not a chin smacker, and I disagree with that advice - but I will body block (say, for counters) or push the dog away from something (plant chewing, pestering other pets) and after my dog knows what "no" means, I use a different word to let the dog know they're actually being disobedient. So I'm not constantly saying "no" and the dog doesn't tune me out.

I think you should reconsider the leash in the house, because that's the easiest way of communicating to cease whatever she's doing, to draw her away from her target. But I wouldn't use the walking leash, since it excites her. Get a cheapo dollar store one and it will work just fine.
12-12-2013 10:34 AM
lyssa62 for the land sharking...I nipped that in the bud from the get-go with a can of pet corrector. Now all I have to do is say "No-bite" and she gives a kiss.

the counter I use a firm "OFF". ( this one has been the hardest cuz she NEEDS to see what is on the counter and approve it. )
12-12-2013 09:29 AM
Merciel
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLab View Post
Getting a dog to give the paw for nail clipping would be an achievement.
Actually it turns out that it took one repetition/about 20 seconds. I asked Crookytail to do it just now, mostly to see whether I could, and he did it. Wiggled a little after each clip but didn't actually move any of his feet.

I used a lot of treats because I was asking for something new and harder than what he's used to, but the basic behavior was identical (give me your foot, don't move it until I say so) and he's a fairly placid dog, so it was literally first try and we're done.

I am not saying these results will be immediately duplicable -- for one, Crooky already has a long history (about two years) of doing the "lift your foot for wiping" variant -- but it wasn't nearly as difficult as I thought it might be.

I know there are a couple of other trainers who have taught their dogs to file their own nails by scratching against sandpaper mounted on a slanted platform, and a lot of other trainers who have taught both the foot lift and the lie-on-your-side for nail clipping, so there are lots of viable alternative ways of handling this. Pick the one that you like best and works for your dog.
12-12-2013 08:05 AM
MadLab
Quote:
Best to teach and proof an easier command than NO. This way when there is time to say NO, you give the known command like "down" or "sit" or "kennel" or "place" or "focus" or "heel" etc etc.
So what's the correction if the dog doesn't comply with your wishes??

Quote:
For example, for nail clipping, you might teach her to give you one paw at a time and stand still until you're done.
Getting a dog to give the paw for nail clipping would be an achievement.

I would think this is more stressful as the dog can escape easier or resist. Fact is dogs don't like their nails cut.

What I do is teach the dogs to be on their sides and have them used to being turned over and inspected and treated if necessary and have ears cleaned and nails cut. This can be different with different dogs. Some will resist and need to be introduced to it slowly.

To get a dog used to having nails cut I will start by rubbing the dogs nails and then scratch them a bit and stretch the foot and leg so over time it becomes desensitized to touch there. Also have the clipper noise as that can also shock the dog. Same with a hair clippers or a scissors for cutting hair.

Quote:
But Zelda either doesn't respect it or doesn't get it when i say "no"? Or both?
If a dog doesn't know what no means I will hold it by the chin and give it a slap on the nose and say no. It is crude but it works. I will use this if a dog is intent on biting something after I say off. I wouldn't redirect behavior if the dog was biting me as this is like a reward for that behavior. When the dog got used to offing then I would reward.

In your case you can stop nurturing excitement and nurture calmness. The dog biting is excited behavior. So through body language and slowing everything down you can stop it.

My girl Bullmastiff mix was always biting my other dog lab mix on the neck and pinning him to the floor. She also liked to chase swans. I developed the Irish e collar for this and simply threw a stone at her rump. Fact was she was off leash and knew I couldn't catch her so the stone bridged the gap.
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