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Thread: Old Working Dog Breeder Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-11-2013 11:23 AM
pets4life I know a man near my old place that had german shepherds around the farm to protect it and protect the animals on the farm and they did an amazing job. I don't know where he got his from either. I think its just one of the many tasks a good dog can do. But I agree with what he said JMHO

My girl would be great on that type of situaiton I think but she can adapt to city life with a yard also. I think a well bred shepherd are jack of all trades and can do all sorts of things not extreme in one set of skills. A good dog can do that farm role but then also be able to perform another role if they had to. JMHO
12-06-2013 12:40 AM
MilesNY Sounds like the guy I bought my border collie Jack from. Pretty sure he didn't sell to many BCs to pet people. He had a huge farm (sheep and cattle) way off any paved road in England. He bred the litter to replace the mother when she retired. I will tell you that Jack was an amazing worker, SAR, agility, OB. He would do whatever you asked him and he was very serious about his work and a tough dog. Had I been into bite sports at the time I bet he would of done well there too.

I think there is a great deal of truth to what the guy said..... But my dogs are still sleeping in my house. :-)

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12-06-2013 12:07 AM
KristiM Sounds like the kind of breeder I would be interested in. The puppy that I have now is a coolie, they have basically been bred in the outback of Australia since the 1800's with no standard or breed club....I specifically went with the breed because they haven't been messed with by modern day breeding principles. Their average life expectancy is 17 and from everyone I have talked to, their temperaments are outstanding. My pup is only 4 months old but so far is the smartest, most focused and most biddable puppy I have owned. Maybe there is something to breeding good working dogs to good working dogs?
12-05-2013 11:25 PM
brembo Border Collies sort of represent this view of things. They were never bred for much of anything aside from intelligence, stamina, and trainability. Toss in athleticism too I guess. The herders wanted a dog that made their work easier or even possible and paired up the dogs that fit the bill with no nod to looks, only proven ability in the field. BCs aren't much to look at IMO, UNTIL they get to work and then they are stunning.

holland said it too, the best BCs are in fact mutts. Mid size frame, wicked smart and incredible stamina.
12-05-2013 09:54 PM
holland My cousin grew up in New Zealand and when he was young worked on a sheep farm-I asked him what kind of dogs they used and he said mutts...someday would love it if he could teach Rorie and I to herd
12-05-2013 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
I was talking to a farmer that is giving my uncle a german shepherd. My uncle has a 1500 acre cow farm. He said he has owned German Shepherds for 50 years and uses them on his angus cow farm. He only breeds when he needs new dogs. He had some interesting points:

- The AKC has ruined the breed. He said the GSD is a working dog and not a show dog.

- Breeders have made the dog too needy. These dogs are made to work and are not lap dogs that should sleep in the bed with you. You want a dog to cuddle get a lapdog. His dogs sleep outside and keep the predators away from his cows and chickens, etc and help corral bulls.

- Breeders have taken schutzhund too far and have created hyped up dogs that are bred to perform a routine and not think.

He also said pedigrees/papers are worthless, you breed dogs that have the temperment/traits to do the task you need them to do. When I asked about hip certifications he laughed. He said by the time he breeds the dog he will know if it has problems through work and normal vet checks.

He said all pups are spoken for and only go to farms where they will work. Kind of a grumpy old guy, but seems to have a purpose to his program at least.
while his thinking might be a little on the extreme end, i agree with everything he says. i think his point towards the schutzhund dogs is that a lot of them are bred with super high prey drive and not enough defense/civil aggression aka not a balanced dog. and schutzhund IS a routine. the dog practices it over and over and over and over. i'm sure some dogs could do a sch3 routine without a handler present. the dog to a point really isnt thinking. im sure his dogs have awesome temperment and working drive. if i was a farmer or needed a dog to do this type of job i'd absolutely look at his dogs. actions speak louder than pedigree/a piece of paper.
12-05-2013 06:51 PM
carmspack It's the way it used to be . The shepherds bred from stock that they knew very very well. Without a dog to rely on they had hardship themselves. The dogs were working partners contributing to the success or failure of the shepherd . Dogs were bred for work . They kept an eye on their fellow herders and bred to replace , or prepare for the young dog to take over . Not commercial. That came in after -- even von Stephanitz says in his book that the prick-eared dogs were bred for the sophisticates -- not the working shepherds.
12-05-2013 05:00 PM
onyx'girl How is the longevity of this breeders progeny? Are they healthy? Does he do any health tests before breeding, or is a looky see good enough for him?
I got Onyx from a 'breeder' that bred for farm/herding as the major goal. She bred without papers/pedigree information and didn't health test. Though she didn't have any lines developed, just bred her bitch with strong herding instincts to whatever stud was convenient.

People that want a farm dog aren't usually that particular and the dogs temperament probably has to be fairly decent or it will not live long. Onyx's dam didn't live long. Neither did the breeders other bitch. I'm sure she's replaced them though.
12-05-2013 02:09 PM
BrianB I am not saying I agree with him or disagree, just thought it was interesting and wanted to see what you all thought.

I am not getting a dog from him because I am not in market and he probably wouldnt consider me because I live in suburbs....

I asked my uncle why he was getting a dog from him and he said "I have seen his dogs work, that is what I need".
12-05-2013 01:57 PM
martemchik Yeah, everyone has their own opinions.

If you’re going to blame the AKC for ruining the breed, I can’t agree with you. Society and progress turned the breed into something different. We don’t all raise our own cattle and don’t need our dogs to herd them, so the breed had to evolve into something different.

It’s not the breeders who have made the dogs needy. It’s the owners. The dogs are needy because WE are needy. We own dogs for their affection and their love. If my dog is in my house, I want him to be near me. Truth is…my dog hates to cuddle and is generally somewhere where he can see the majority of our house, “guarding” it. He lays in the middle of the house so that he can quickly get to anywhere in the house, or he’s lying on our bay window sill so that he can clearly see everything that goes on inside and outside. The neediness is just part of what we do with our dogs. For sport people…the main thing they teach their pups is the relationship with the handler, because the dog will then do whatever the handler asks of it. It’s not that the dog NEEDS that relationship, it’s the handler that WANTS it. Most of our dogs, if raised in the environment the farmer raises his dogs in would be just like his dogs. Guaranteed if you brought his dogs into a more urban/sport environment, they’d be just as “needy.”

The part about breeders making the dogs not able to think…I’d like to see a breeder produce a puppy that knows the Schutzhund 1 through 3 routine just by coming out of the womb. Can’t see how that has anything to do with breeders, it’s all about the training.

The majority of breeders I know look at pedigrees as a guide, not a “have to breed this to that” rule. They see what’s in there, but they evaluate the actual dog and then decide if it should be bred or not. Those dogs are bred for a different purpose than what this gentleman is breeding for. Plus…if he doesn’t look at pedigrees, how can he guarantee he’s not crossing dogs that are very closely related? The health thing? There are plenty of dogs that don’t show any signs of diseases and have them. If a dog grows up with HD, it will eventually get used to the pain and learn to ignore it. Doesn’t mean the dog doesn’t have HD, just means no one could ever tell. And its only with extreme cases that a vet can tell a dog has an issue without doing an x-ray or running a test.
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