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Thread: Interesting problem I had not anticipated owning three Black WD GSDs in my wolf pack Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-06-2013 10:48 AM
pets4life ALso the person who took my place is now having problems so they plan on putting up fake dog warning signs or something.
12-06-2013 10:36 AM
pets4life Remember when you just have one male you can take him then with your female and they can both be your PPD, no one is going to get past you. I had 1 female as a PPD for 3 years and was in a high risk area and trust me you are going to be safe. THey wont shoot both dogs then you to get what they need they will seek easier prey. I had to do a lot of opening up and checking just like you, my dog was the eyes on my back and NOTHING could sneak up on us in the pitch black she saw everything. You are safe. They wont put a gun to a dog and say hold your bark! Your male female team will be overkill and the perfect combo.
12-06-2013 12:51 AM
lone Ranger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packen View Post
When choosing 2 males you need to check the temperaments very carefully. Get 2 beta males and one will kill the other, get one beta + one alpha and they strike a deal pronto, no/minimum bloodshed. Chances of getting 2 alphas are extremely slim.
Packen, Thank you for that. I did not choose them, they sort of chose me in a roundabout way. They are actually brothers, I bought the one and was given the other..

Wolf Caesar is the Alpha, and there has only been one serious fight. That was about four weeks ago, and Caesar had poor Ali down screaming his head of with Caesar on top. Sadly, the only real damage was caused by one of the Bitches that ran in and bit him on the paw when he was down on his back. No serious damage but a puncture bleeder I had to nurse. Since then it has all been a bit of growl with me shutting it down.

Packen: I think they have struck their "Deal" with no fights now in a few weeks living in harmony. However: The last dozen posts got me so concerned I actually drove out the half hour to the horse property mid day during these posts (night your time) and dropped off Shaka the bitch and picked up Caesar. Wolf Caesar is definitely an Alpha, even the Bitches back off immediately over anything. Ali acts like one of the "Girls" so he has mellowed to second place I think, but he was always a bit of a "Beta".... My joke about GayWolf was not well received in your language, but it is a chuckler here... Wolf Ali is a tad bigger by two kg, and maybe two inches longer in the body, but he hardly barks where Caesar is the watchdog..

My current view is to concentrate on Wolf Caesar as my major companion Dog in my Dodge Cummins Ram running around town and to Business. While Shaka is very endearing, She is also a bit soft, and not likely to be able to rescue an old fellow like me in trouble... I mean I am still training horses for fun in my off time, NRHA Reining horses of which I have 9, but I am 61 y.o. My Business is Bushtracker, we build the Number One off road live in trailers for exploring the Outback, and I need a PPD dog off hours in an Industrial area. (near no guns here, but still the thugs and punks..)

I am thinking I should concentrate on Wolf Caesar as my everyday travel dog. Raised on the RAW Diet, and slowed growth, lean teenager at about 27" high to wither and 89 lbs at 13 months. On the raw diet he is lean and will still put on serious weight as he is big boned. I Thank you all for your input and value all your answers...
12-05-2013 10:13 PM
Packen When choosing 2 males you need to check the temperaments very carefully. Get 2 beta males and one will kill the other, get one beta + one alpha and they strike a deal pronto, no/minimum bloodshed. Chances of getting 2 alphas are extremely slim.
12-05-2013 10:01 PM
Wild Wolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
Or a fight breaks out when you are the only one present and are outweighed by two dogs who want to off each other and can't get them apart? Yeah it is not fun! I had a fight break out between my two males and even with my 6'4" 250lb athlete of a husband present we struggled to get them apart. Amazingly neither dog got hurt (just lots of wrestling, growling, and gnashing of teeth) but I ended up in the emergency room getting x-rayed and stitched up on a day that we had planned a nice vacation.

I don't understand why these males have to be together if they fight when separated? I guess I don't really get what is happening. Why not separate them now? They should be bonding to YOU and minding YOU. They are adolescent dogs, they don't get to decide who goes where and when. If they can't not get into spats then they should have access to each other.


I don't think people realize how difficult it is to break up a fight between two large male dogs who want to kill each other. I've done it many times, and it is nearly impossible and I often end up somehow injured... on my wedding day I had massive bruises on my body because I had to break up a vicious dog fight between two males at work...

It is nearly impossible to break up a fight between two males that want each other dead. Until you have to do it, you can appreciate the force behind it.. and the fact that they cannot hear you commanded them to stop and throwing obedience commands out... nothing can push back raw animal instinct.
12-05-2013 09:52 PM
Liesje
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Wolf View Post
... what if a BAD fight breaks out and you have to access to a veterinarian? Not an easy thing to live with.
Or a fight breaks out when you are the only one present and are outweighed by two dogs who want to off each other and can't get them apart? Yeah it is not fun! I had a fight break out between my two males and even with my 6'4" 250lb athlete of a husband present we struggled to get them apart. Amazingly neither dog got hurt (just lots of wrestling, growling, and gnashing of teeth) but I ended up in the emergency room getting x-rayed and stitched up on a day that we had planned a nice vacation.

I don't understand why these males have to be together if they fight when separated? I guess I don't really get what is happening. Why not separate them now? They should be bonding to YOU and minding YOU. They are adolescent dogs, they don't get to decide who goes where and when. If they can't not get into spats then they should have access to each other.
12-05-2013 09:20 PM
Wild Wolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by lone Ranger View Post
Alright, light hearted joking aside... I AM THE ALPHA.. What about this strategy?

It is not they are attached to me, it is me that has the problem and I am attached to them. Caesar was my choice at 3 weeks, broadest muzzle biggest boned... Ali was the most interesting but I was talked out of him by the Breeder, since I might want to breed Caesar was more the classic. I always like Ali as well, and when his home did not work out I readily took him...

Now, I have never had a personal travel dog that was a Bitch. Shaka is smaller, and not as intimidatingly big, but is very easy to get along with. I respect all of your opinions, so I accept that I cannot run the "Boys" together as eventually as they mature there could be trouble, I thought maybe not but asked your opinions as I have never tried it. As a PPD Dog, and yes in my travels I need one, in an Industrial area opening up or locking up or responding to an alarm it is nice to have the deterrent along. Shaka is a lovely companion but a bit smaller and a bit soft. Caesar is tough and does not feel pain or discomfort, as a PPD candidate for pure function he is the "Man"... So what about this idea, as I respect your opinions:

What about working with Caesar more, and letting him be the house dog and the major travel dog day to day? Shaka is a very good first responder outside, and would be good outside with Ali as they play well. Ali is not really GayWolf, I was making a joke, he is just easier going and softer in temperament. That aside: They have about a half acre yard all around the house, and I have a separate area smaller yard fenced in the back. What about keeping them separated with ME as the real Alpha?? Take Caesar or Ali as my travel dog and day to day in the office, and just tend to the coat and training a bit more...? Let out, I have two yards, one inside and one out. Out with the horses I supervise and do not even allow them to growl at one another. So do you think this could work if fenced off from each other?

Thank you in advance, and I hope this is a help to others as well..
They are your dogs, it is up to you what you want to do. Lots of people crate and rotate or keep males separated. I was just pointing out that he would be happy as a house dog with another family, re-homing him would not do him any harm. He might make a wonderful family pet for some other family, and be able to stay in a home. Up to you, good luck with whatever you decide to do!
12-05-2013 08:52 PM
qbchottu If you plan on having multiple intact animals and plan to have a breeding program, you need a proper containment and kennel system for each animal. Additionally, each animal needs separate time with you for exercise, training, attention, and development. I have six intact female GSDs and one intact male - additional intact males and females occasionally stay with me for breeding, training, or boarding. Each dog has his/her own crate or kennel and gets individual time for his/her needs. I don't expect multiple intact dogs to make friends or run together as a pack.

Don't get me wrong - I let multiple dogs out at the same time and they enjoy their dog play with each other, but I never let them out unsupervised and I don't expect them to work out differences amongst each other. My dogs look to me for security, leadership, and stability. I would never tolerate one dog bullying another and would consider it a failure on my part if a dog felt insecure, scared, and uneasy because of another. These types of negative feelings have potential long term implications for the animal.

If I were you, I would set up a proper kennel/crate system. Rotate dogs in/out of the house. Give each the time and training he/she needs. I would never expect adult males and females to roam with each other without there being tension. Some packs work, but the large majority of intact same gender packs don't and all it takes it one bad fight to pound that reality home. Keep your dogs safe by containing them separately and tending to them individually.

Male and female can be fine together if they get along with each other and there is no vast discrepancy between the two. But keep in mind that silent heats, and split heats can happen leading to accidental breedings. Some females are very clean and won't show obvious signs of going/being in heat - again leading to accidental breedings if you do not have the experience to catch it properly. I have known dogs that break though doors, rip open kennels, and scale walls to breed a female so be wary of getting lax with an intact female. If I were you, I would contain each animal separately in a secure kennel, let the ones that get along play together under your supervision, and give proper attention to each individually as well. Good luck to you.
12-05-2013 07:13 PM
JakodaCD OA That sounds like a better plan if you need a good deterrent and you think Ceasar is the one, keep them separated. If Ali is good with Shaka, then let them be buddies, (but I would neuter him if you don't want to breed those two specifically)..
12-05-2013 07:09 PM
lone Ranger Alright, light hearted joking aside... I AM THE ALPHA.. What about this strategy?

It is not they are attached to me, it is me that has the problem and I am attached to them. Caesar was my choice at 3 weeks, broadest muzzle biggest boned... Ali was the most interesting but I was talked out of him by the Breeder, since I might want to breed Caesar was more the classic. I always like Ali as well, and when his home did not work out I readily took him...

Now, I have never had a personal travel dog that was a Bitch. Shaka is smaller, and not as intimidatingly big, but is very easy to get along with. I respect all of your opinions, so I accept that I cannot run the "Boys" together as eventually as they mature there could be trouble, I thought maybe not but asked your opinions as I have never tried it. As a PPD Dog, and yes in my travels I need one, in an Industrial area opening up or locking up or responding to an alarm it is nice to have the deterrent along. Shaka is a lovely companion but a bit smaller and a bit soft. Caesar is tough and does not feel pain or discomfort, as a PPD candidate for pure function he is the "Man"... So what about this idea, as I respect your opinions:

What about working with Caesar more, and letting him be the house dog and the major travel dog day to day? Shaka is a very good first responder outside, and would be good outside with Ali as they play well. Ali is not really GayWolf, I was making a joke, he is just easier going and softer in temperament. That aside: They have about a half acre yard all around the house, and I have a separate area smaller yard fenced in the back. What about keeping them separated with ME as the real Alpha?? Take Caesar or Ali as my travel dog and day to day in the office, and just tend to the coat and training a bit more...? Let out, I have two yards, one inside and one out. Out with the horses I supervise and do not even allow them to growl at one another. So do you think this could work if fenced off from each other?

Thank you in advance, and I hope this is a help to others as well..
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