|10-16-2013 02:27 PM|
|agirlwi||MANY THANKS for all of the feedback and recommendations, it's very helpful and am looking into best route to go with diet suggestions and more testing/possible root causes. Unfortunately, since the post, we had another urgent vet visit from sudden rear leg lameness which leads me to believe something more is going on than diet, but certainly diet is not helping matters whatever this is. I'm hopeful this will get this figured out soon. Thanks again for the responses.|
|10-13-2013 12:01 AM|
Sorry to distract from the feeding advice, but wouldn't the enlarged (even slightly) liver and spleen be an indication of hemangiosarcoma???
OP, please search the site for this disease (cancer) - many have lost their dogs to this - 9 also seems to be the average age from the threads I have read since being on here.
From what I understand, blood values are normal with this - I could be wrong about that.
Crossing my fingers it's just diet related
|10-12-2013 09:43 PM|
Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: Main Page
Sabine created a low protein recipe that truly saved my dog's life.
|10-12-2013 09:11 PM|
|Nikitta||An excellent vitamin suppliment that makes for shiny coats is Nuvet|
|10-12-2013 06:23 PM|
Your dog shows all symptoms of pancreatitis, and it turns chronic. First of all - read everything you can about this desease in humans, dog's pancreas isn't much different than ours. Her pancreas simply doesn't do its job. Your dog should be on a low protein diet, but she shouldn't eat "heavy" proteins - no beef, no lamb or deer, no eggs, not a gram of any sort of fat in any product including milk products. Forget about existence of dog food, your case is exeptional. Of course, series of tests would be desirable in order to diagnose her properly and to put her on a diet. Before then - start with yogurts and probiotics for one day, let her system to rest, she wouldn't die. The next day - a lean chicken broth with chopped green beans coocked in it, with added rye bread in this soup. In two days feed her raw chicken breasts and chicken necks ( she should have some fresh bones in her stomach), lean rabbit meat, its vertebra bones and white fish ( or anything similar), all of it would be easy to digest. She should stop vomiting. And go to the vet, without physically examining her at least, nobody would tell you what her diet should be.
|10-12-2013 06:04 PM|
My current foster dog is a BIG GSD boy. He came to me with diarrhea. That ended, but he had continually soft stools. I switched him to Wellness Simple Salmon and Potato. I feed him one cup in the morning and one at night. I add a spoonful of canned 100 percent pumpkin to each meal. Years ago, my vet told me about mixing All Bran Cereal and Ground Beef to firm up stools. It has worked for me EVERY time I used it - on multiple dogs. It has worked for people I recommend it to, who decide to give it a try. It is very simple.
Fry up a pound of ground beef. Drain well. (I use paper towels to soak off the grease.) Dump the ground beef into a bowl and allow to cool. Take the box of All Bran cereal and add some to the bowl. Not the entire box. Not even half - just a nice mixture of the beef and All Bran. Store in a plastic bag in the refrigerator. This can be used to transition the dog to a new food. Start by feeding just this mixture one handful at a time throughout the day. Next day, add in a bit of kibble. Continue to do this until you are feeding more kibble than the All Bran/Ground Beef.
My foster gets 1/2 cup of the mixture with each meal. His stools are firm now all the time. One pound of this mixture lasts about a week. I don't understand why people won't try it. It will hurt nothing and there is nothing to lose.
|10-12-2013 05:29 PM|
On the bags of kibble, it says "minimum fat content" so it could be much higher. Also make sure when reading the ingredients in foods that it doesn't contain any forms of yeast as this can cause problems in some dogs.
I too vote for the human grade food made by The Honest Kitchen (the ONLY one in the USA recognized by the FDA as Human Grade ingredients). The Zeal is fish based (8.5% fat) no grains and would probably help. It is a dehydrated food so a 10 pound box is approximately $100 but re-hydrates to 35-40 pounds. Or Verve (8% fat) which is beef, oats, and rye, 10# box $63 re-hydrates to 35-40 lbs. You can find a store near you if you put your zip code in here: http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/find-a-retailer
I know you said you have tried Digestive Enzymes and Pro-biotics, but they may not have contained all of the necessary species appropriate ingredients for a dog with issues like this.
The digestive enzymes that contain "animal" ingredients such as Ox Bile and Pancreas are the most helpful as most of the ones on the market are only "plant" derived enzymes.
DIGESTIVE ENZYMES by Mercola: One scoop: Betaine HCI 25mg (protein digestion), Pancreatin 4X 25 mg (this is pancreas tissue), Ox Bile (bile for added digestion) 25 mg, Bromelain (Pineapple) 25 mg (proteolytic enzymes-), Papain (Papya) 25 mg (proteolytic enzymes), Protease 2,500 USP Units, Amylase 2,500 USP Units, Lipase 500 USP Units.
Healthy Pets Digestive Enzymes:
· Betaine HCl - breaks down proteins into peptides and amino acids and fats into triglycerides
· Ox Bile Extract – safely used for many years in human and pet enzyme products to support the liver's production of bile and offer supplemental bile for bile-deficient pets, critical for digesting fats
· Bromelain (pineapple) – one of the safest and most powerful enzymes to help break down and digest protein
· Papain (papaya) – a natural plant-sourced enzyme that works together with bromelain to digest protein
· Pancreatin – an animal-based pancreatic enzyme providing all three of these enzymes:
o Protease – helps break down proteins into amino acids for digestion
o Amylase – for splitting and breaking down long-chain carbohydrates, including starch and glycogen (the energy-storage molecule in animal tissue) for digestion in the small intestine
o Lipase – helps break down and digest fats
Some of the Pro-biotics also do not have particular ingredients to aide a dog with this type of condition.
"Human probiotic strains have been formulated to repopulate human GI flora. Giving human probiotics which are lactobacillus/bifidus/acidopjilus, can provide some benefit but providing additional species-appropriate bacterial strains such as E. faecalis, is more beneficial."
FOR PET'S PROBIOTIC by Mercola: 58 billion bacteria in every serving: (15 strains) BIFIDOBACTERIUM LACTIS - 5*LACTOBACILLUS ACIDOPHILUS - 5*BIFIDOBACTERIUM LONGUM - 5*BIFIDOBACTERIUM BIFIDUM - 5*LACTOBACILLUS CASEI - 5*LACTOBACILLUS PLANTARUM - 5*BIFIDOBACTERIUM BREVE - 5*STREPTOCOCCUS THERMOPHILUS - 5*SACCROMYCES BOULARDI - 5*BIFIDOBACTERIUM ANIMALIS - 5*E.FAECIUM - 5*LACTOBACILLUS RHAMNOSUS - 1*LACTOBACILUS BULGARICUS - 1*LACTOSPORE LACTOBACILLUS SPOROGENES - 1**BILLION VIABLE ORGANISMS.MICROCRYSTALLINE CELLULOSE, SILICA
*Digestive Enzymes Healthy Pets Digestive Enzymes for Optimal Digestion - Mercola.com
*For Pets Probiotic Pet Probiotics | Optimal Digestive Health for Pets - Mercola.com
Hope this helps
|10-12-2013 10:50 AM|
It does sound like something is going on, though I don't really have any suggestions medically to try other than possibly to see a specialist.
Many allergies are protein based so if you feed a mostly poultry diet, you might want to try a fish or beef based food. Some of the grain frees that are lower in protein/fat and have foods that have flavors other than chicken are 4health grain free and Kirkland Salmon. Someone else mentioned Natural Balance and that might be a good place to start as well, since they have limited diets.
When we had a dog that had GI upsets we used The Honest Kitchen dehydrated food, as well as one of their supplements - Perfect Form. Perfect Form has slippery elm and some other things in it that did help, though it is not a long term solution.
I agree that Monica Segal is great and can formulate food for a dog with health issues.
|10-10-2013 08:53 PM|
It's hard to go against a vet and all their education. Hills is supposed to make an ok prescription diet. But I think it is not working for your senior.
If your dog is eating everything you put down, but is losing weight and condition, than something is wrong. They may have done senior bloodwork, but they may not have tested for some things. Did your dog have to fast for this blood test.
Three possibilities that I can think of off the top of my head and they are SIBO, Diabetes -- not too sure of this one though the symptoms are not far from my parents' cat, and EPI. For EPI the blood test has to happen when the dog has been fasted for 12 hours. Increasing intake will not help if the food is not treated with enzymes properly -- all food. So if your dog is EPI, then it will continue to lose weight and condition until you figure it out.
Another thing would be thyroid function. Usually you will see low thyroid with coat condition first. But that should have been noticed in the bloodwork that was done.
If your dog continues to lose weight significantly, get the test done for EPI.
I think it makes sense to find something other than the Hills digestive diet. If you are feeding kibble anyway, then I doubt that diet could do what you want anyway. Usually with dogs that have digestive issues, I feed chicken and brown rice to, and then I will slowly add a quality kibble back into the mix. And I will stop feeding the chicken and rice.
What should help coat condition is fish oil, vitamin E, an egg raw or hard boiled. Unless your dog is allergic.
I know someone who went through allergy testing. You almost have to go to an allergist, and even then it is tough to pin point. It does not have to be a food allergy. Dogs can be allergic to pollens and grass too.
Lower quality foods include preservatives and additives, fillers that can also cause the dogs problems. It may not be the corn in a low quality food, but one of these other ingredients, but most of the lower quality foods have them, and so staying away from corn is generally a good first step. Staying away from all grain, I think, is over-doing it in most cases. Dogs are just as likely, if not more likely to be allergic to beef and chicken as they are to be allergic to rice. But rice has very little nutrient-value for dogs, so avoiding is arguable.
What rice does though, or what it seems to do, is it adds volume to the food, so that in the kcal/cup, the protein and fat level is not super high with respect to the calories. I really don't know enough about it to make many suggestions though. It seems like our dogs do better overall if they have protein levels and fat levels that are not as high as some grain free foods are.
A lot of grain frees have peas or potatoes. I do not know that anyone has proven that potates or peas are better than rice. Don't know. Don't think so. A lot of foods that are more affordable have rice in them.
Some dogs simply do not do good on the highest end foods. Have you considered trying a food like Natural Balance that has a limited ingredient list, and where you can find the best meat protein for your dog?
|10-10-2013 07:24 PM|
|Nigel||How about trying something on dogfood advisors 3-4 star rating, some times dogs don't do well on some of the higher rated/priced food. I've seen people post their dogs do best on Costco or Purina one type foods. Also I've seen canned pumpkin recommended often for both diarrhea and constipation, might be worth trying.|
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