|09-29-2013 09:28 PM|
|Liesje||Papers are not necessarily an indication of the quality of the dog (no more so than having a SSN does not mean I'm a "better quality" person), but not having them is very limiting. Without AKC papers I could not...get full UKC registration and show my dog, get USCA registration and show my dog at national level USCA shows and/or USCA breed survey, ditto for WDA, enter a National level IPO trial for either org...probably more. Considering how popular the breed is and how much variety there is, it's really not THAT hard for me to find exactly what I'm looking for whether it's a pet, sport dog, working dog, breeding prospect, etc and have the right papers so that my breeding, showing, and trialing options are never limited.|
|09-27-2013 03:06 PM|
I mean...I currently have an intact AKC male. It would probably take me a few days to track down an AKC female that I could either breed to or just purchase and start breeding. It would probably be even easier for me to find an AKC registered female puppy and then I'd have to wait a year before I could start breeding.
|09-27-2013 02:47 PM|
martemchik is right, breeders see the best homes a little differently than pet people. Sure, we would all like to see every dog we have succeed in some venue or many. But I think most of us are very happy to have our dogs in a home where he is provided for well, both physically and mentally, where the owners train him, socialize him, work with him so that he becomes a cherished member of their family. These are the best homes, the ones where the owners come into it with some knowledge and experience, energy and loyalty.
We want to match up a pup to the owner, so that a high energy, high drive dog isn't going to go to an owner who makes a trip around the block once a month. The intelligent, independent pup probably should go to someone who owned a shepherd before, and seems to know how to handle a dog. We want to find the best situation for a dog, and if he hamstring ourselves right out of the gate by having only those people who are not very knowledgeable about the dog world that they won't care about the breeder being able to provide registration papers, or those people whose ethics are such that they are willing to overlook poor ethics, then we are severely cripled when we go to find the best homes for the puppies.
|09-27-2013 02:36 PM|
Yeah if you look at it from that point of view. However, some trainers that take their dogs to the top believe in crating a dog anytime it's not training. I personally wouldn't want any of my dogs crated like that.
So I guess we can leave this at this, the best home definition depends on what a particular breeder is looking to get out of that home, some amazing titles or just give the dog a good life.
I'm knocking the trainers that do that, just stating the facts.
|09-27-2013 02:01 PM|
I think the issue is that a good/great home in the eyes of many breeders is way different than what a good/great home is considered in the regular world. Most people do get offended by this type of conversation but its because they don't realize that a really good breeder likes to see their dogs worked, trained, trialed, showed...whatever. But anything to get that dog out there and get the kennel name out there. At the end of the day, maybe that pup will get the titles necessary and be used in the breeding program without the breeder having to invest their own time and money into that dog...how wonderful would that be?
And yes, those homes that give shelter/food/love to a dog are also wonderful. Especially in today's world with so many abusive households and households that don't take their dogs to the vet or get them their required immunizations ect. And sure...breeders want all their dogs to have good, loving homes, but those are just alright homes. They treat the dog well, the dog gets what it needs, but its not a home that is going to "show off" what that breeder has produced and not give that breeder a bigger name in the show/sport world.
Everyone knows what happens to a kennel if their dog wins Westminster...demand spikes, prices go through the roof, and an all around appreciation for that breeder for what they have produced. Their name and that dog will forever be written in history. Same thing happens to a kennel when their dogs consistently work in police departments, go into the military, or if one of their dogs (with the help of an amazing trainer/home) makes the world Schutzhund competition. Well guess what...that kind of an owner, that will take that dog that far...isn't looking for an un-papered dog.
Tar heel mom...you're a great home for any dog. But you admitted to not caring about titles or work. You just went and got a dog from a guy you think you trust. I did the same thing...I got a $500 AKC registered dog from a family. I also got lucky, but now that I'm working him and trialing him, I've learned that I got really lucky and really didn't know what I was looking for. My dog has always had shelter, food, gone to the vet, he goes on daily walks, weekly hikes, and most of all he gets mental stimulation through daily training. I also trial him, I want to see how "successful" he can become and prove his abilities to others. So hopefully this makes me an excellent home according to what those breeders that care about their reputation are looking for.
|09-27-2013 06:19 AM|
|TAR HEEL MOM||
Selzer...Sorry. I worded that wrong. I guess it didn't read the way it sounded in my head
What I meant to say is that my "off-the-cuff" reaction" is to be offended BUT then I REALIZE that I didn't buy Tar from this man, etc...In other words, I am NOT offended because I realize I WOULDN'T have gone out and bought him under those circumstances.
He does have papers btw, but they are CKC papers because the puppy mill owner who bred his mother has been banned from AKC registration for reasons I can only imagine. I have heard tales that she has over 200 GSD's alone on her property, not to mention the small toy breeds she "produces." The owner of the litter was a nice man who owned two CKC registered GSDs that accidentally bred. He was older and sick and was unable to keep them apart so he came to us for help and had the mother spayed.
I do however feel that some really special and "perfect" dogs are out there in this big old world roaming around without "papers."
|09-27-2013 12:47 AM|
Nobody starts out being awesome. You learn, you practice, you make mistakes, you get better. Eventually (if you're doing it right) you become good, then better, then maybe in somebody's eyes "the best."
But it's not static. Improvement is possible and deterioration is possible. I am not today who I was 15 years ago. I hope I'm a better person; I try always not to become worse.
But either way, not the same person, and not at all the same home for a dog.
|09-27-2013 12:34 AM|
It doesn't matter where you get your dog. Lots of people rescue dogs and are awesome homes. Some people rescue dogs and are miserable homes. People buy dogs from breeders at 1500 and up, and are great homes and miserable homes, knowledgeable owners and owners who are ignorant about dogs.
When screening buyers, trying to find the best homes for the puppies, people who are willing to overlook dishonesty, cheating, using a dog that was sold without breeding rights for breeding, being suspended from the AKC, because the pup is cheaper, these buyers are really not the best homes. They can just be oblivious, and can become great homes. But out of the gun, they have a lot to learn.
Not bothering to register a litter because it costs $30 + 2x the number of puppies, knowing that will limit me to those individuals who either do not care if the breeding practices are shadey, or to individuals who are totally oblivious as to what the lack of papers means, just doesn't make sense at all.
And the big answer to this thread is, if you have a bitch who is awesome in every way, but has no papers. Do you breed her? And the answer is really simple, no.
|09-27-2013 12:14 AM|
But if we are talking about it changing then I agree, I wasn't the best home when I bought him. And I will def buy from a breeder next time
Sent from Petguide.com Free App
|09-27-2013 12:05 AM|
As a former breeder, you would have known that. But it sounds like the dogs you were placing and did not breed out of were from a breeder who was having trouble placing their puppies, and was going through a rescue to place them. How would that make you less than a good if not better/best home? You did not suggest that the breeder did not have papers available. If you got the dog without compensating the breeder, through the rescue, did not spay or neuter as they require, and then bred the dog without papers -- that would be unethical in my opinion. But that isn't what is happening.
And as for the Labrador, you bought a pup from a breeder with papers, that you visited, and seemed to cover your requirements, what in that would make you a less than great owner? You could not guaranty that he was honest. None of us can. Not really.
Personally, I think it is suicide to falsify papers. The tests they have now are good enough to have separate sires on a single litter. And I have read the pages in the back of the Gazzette, where they say the names of the people whose litters were checked and the number for litters whose registration was revoked. I don't know. I figure that they may not catch everyone but they will probably catch me, if I do anything so stupid.
So I am not sure why you would be offended. It doesn't sound like you are buying or selling pups that cannot be registered. Or planning to breed dogs to produce a litter that is ineligible for registration.
|This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.|