|08-13-2013 09:20 AM|
|cliffson1||Lol....when I had litters, when they reached 7 weeks, I would take a small gas powered leaf blower and turn it on and leave it in the middle of the yard. I didn't expect them to run towards it but I want to see how they handle/adjust this noise/object. What I absolutely don't want to see were pups that would run and hide under something, whimpering, and not come out. There are differing degrees of acceptable, like coming forward to inquire, or just observing it for a while, or just ignoring it and engaging in something else, all being acceptable.....but many people today are breeding litters where this object would traumatize the pups......and that is NOT good temperament.|
|08-13-2013 09:04 AM|
|Chip Blasiole||You should be able to tell a lot about your dog's temperament strengths and weaknesses at an early age, but you have to know what to look for and set up scenarios to evaluate the pup. How does the dog react to new environments? Does he show defensive barking in unfamiliar situations? Is he gun shy? What does he do if you bring him around a lawnmower or leafblower, for example. You can build some simple agility obstacles to see if he is confident walking on narrow boards off the ground, or use objects already around, such as at a playground. Will he readily go into the water and swim. How is he around other dogs and children? Tie him out and walk away out of sight for a few minutes and observe him. How is he on slick, shiny surfaces? Does he have any prey drive? There are many things you can do to assess a puppy. These are things that are part of socialization that to me are more important than taking him around and letting everyone pet him.|
|08-13-2013 07:38 AM|
YES always "It seems that most want/expect a pretty "robust, confident, quickly recovering" puppy, even as young as 7/8 weeks."
NO never select " a shy, nervous, cowering, fearful pup."
|08-12-2013 09:29 PM|
I guess I should have prefaced my opinion with the fact that we have only accepted dogs into our home who were pound saves, flea market saves or rescues. We have never bought a high value pedigreed dog because there has always been an ample supply of good candidates at our local ASPCA shelter and pound. Our most recent acquisition was a washed out Service dog. She failed to meet the standard for transitioning and was removed from training and needed a forever home or be destroyed. So a lot of the dogs we have taken in were fundamentally not show standard or from strong backgrounds to begin with. We have essentially worked with what we got and helped all of them become the best dogs they could be. Some were less than perfect but for the most part they have all excelled in one or more traits. The rotttie was a 125 pound lap dog that would literally lick the skin off your face and loved everybody and everything. When my oldest was a baby she pulled him around the house with her tail since it wasn't docked. She was always within his reach up till she died of bone cancer at the age of 7. As far as guarding her home she did that naturally because I am disabled and unable to react quickly so she makes up for it by helping to slow things down in the house. If you were invited to our home you would find a happy, well adjusted pack that was glad to meet you and interested in what you are about because I have home health people in and out all the time. Once you have been introduced and been greeted you are welcomed into the pack and can then come and go at your leisure. Sassy only guarded the door with people she had not been introduced to or accepted. In her entire life she only did not like the man who delivered LP, and we figured it was because she was taunted by him on one or more occasions. Generally if we were comfortable and allowed you into the house that was good enough for her. But with almost zero exceptions every dog we have ever had has been loyal, resourcefull, independent, stable and consistent. Some did not arrive that way, but over time with patience and lots of love and reassurance they all became well behaved and productive memebers of out little pack. We have never been worried if one of our girls would ever bite or act out in public or private. They all understood that biting was strictly forbidden through training and diversion when they were young and in the teething stages of puppy hood. Every one could go into public on a leash and behave perfectly. The down/stay command would work for long periods of time with no reinforcement if we wanted to eat in a restaurant that didn't allow dogs on the patio outside. I would say that we have been fortunate and have also spent a great deal of time training them so we have always gotten predictable results from every one. As far as specialized training I have no doubt that they could manage that with little difficulty if we decided that we wanted them to do that too. For us about the highest level of training we ever expect to reach is a canine good citizen. With the exception of the latest arrival, she will complete her SD training, so she can go with me when she is done and assist my activities while I am out and about.
|08-12-2013 05:05 PM|
|DaniFani||Thanks for all the input, everyone. It seems that most want/expect a pretty "robust, confident, quickly recovering" puppy, even as young as 7/8 weeks. One would then be lead to be concerned/dissuaded from a shy, nervous, cowering, fearful pup. Is it then safe to say, for the most part, that GSD puppies that are going to fit the standard in temperament should never be shy, nervous, cowering, etc....in everyday, normal, experiences?|
|08-12-2013 02:37 PM|
|onyx'girl||When I went out, it was in play/we weren't doing any evaluating. As I posted, so much plays into things....breeder raising methods, genetic, that was the point of my post. One five minute window of a stranger looking at a pup doesn't mean a whole lot in the big picture. The handler that brought the pup along wasn't even the one who will be doing the training/her husband is the one doing the feeding/etc|
|08-12-2013 12:34 PM|
" I am wondering at what age can you tell what is "at a dog's core." I have seen people say, "a great GSD, with solid nerves may not show it until they mature...sometimes 2/3 years." I have also heard that you can tell right away (3-7 months old), what kind of "toughness, nerve, stability, etc." that a dog has at their core. "
xxx DaniFani is asking about the core temperamental confidence , which is always at the core . This has nothing to do with drives. You can have a dog that can even have no prey drive , no play drive and be rock-solid .
There is no need to wait till 2 or 3 years for confidence to show, in fact I would be suspect of a dog that is environmentally sensitive , reluctant , hesitant . A dog stable to the core lives life large, with gusto. No inhibitions and almost immediate recovery , resilience when something unpleasant results .
on to quote "I saw a WL pup(7 weeks old) last week that had really nice prey drive, grips were good, he didn't let go whatsoever, didn't stop after several minutes of play. Acted very confident, came right out and engaged.
Trainer thought the pup would make a good sport prospect with that show of play. "
xxx is that what schutzhund has become prey and play.
right from the beginning I would look at other things .
continuing quote "I then went out into the field and called the puppy "pup, pup, pup" from the handler."
xxx but it wasn't your dog . remember this
quote " She'd only had him a few days, (11 pups in the litter and he was one of the last to go)"
xxx yes, she had only had him for a few days . The pup is trying to make sense of things , is transferring a bond , finding its home , group . "you" ask it to come to you - social attraction but also confusion causing stress because it is just learning attachment to the owner .
quote " Puppy ran towards me and then before he got to me, a few of the dogs in vehicles up in the parking lot started barking as someone pulled in. "
quote "Pup ran to me, whimpering and cowered a bit, hiding himself next to me. "
xxx depends, what are you interpreting . a young dog , temperature, distance , speed, not having much of a physical ability might come in making a wheezing squeak , also the excitement of the moment . the coming in cowering again that is an interpretation. The person giving the account is lying down , the pup , being social will come in low and lie down beside , which is what was said , and where was the shady side of you?
so many things to take into account. Had the dog been frightened , it would have bolted and avoided you .
quote "I didn't show any body language that was threatening, was sideways and playfully on the ground....very neutral. "
"I didn't console pup, but got up and moved away while the handler called him to her."
xxx it would have been nice to acknowledge the pups efforts . It did come . a friendly , pleasant association would have been a very good thing . don't set up for failure
quote "Puppy wouldn't engage with the handler when she called to him "
xxx exactly ! like this , the dog just did a recall and got no reward , do you think it was likely to try it again ?
"he went to a shade spot and laid down"
xxx yes -- a young dog has limits.
so overall there is no need for a dog this young to be out on the sport field . first task is to show the dog where it belongs , bond with family , bond with master , at least until that is understood.
what should have happened is reverse of the "test" that was given . the stranger should have held the dog . The owner should have walked away. The dog should have been encouraged to come on in , and when he arrived there should have been a party , personal bond forging .
instead it was done backwards ..
|08-12-2013 11:00 AM|
|08-12-2013 08:53 AM|
When you have 7-8 week pups, the breeder can ( experienced) be pretty accurate in predicting general outcomes on pups especially if the female has had a litter before for the breeder or this is multiple generation of the breeders stock. For somebody who is seeing pups for first time and picking, there are general signs you may look for....but it means much less in terms of assessing what the dog will eventually be. Case in point, suppose you have a litter with very strong genetics from both parents, and suppose you have a litter with one parent from strong genetic stock and other parent from much softer stock, ( line mixing), when you view both litters, I am sure there will be some dominant pup, maybe an aloof pup, most pups wagging tails and hopefully coming out to meet you. But as they grow older, some of the pups from the second litter are going to start taking on the characteristics of the weaker genetics. In the context of the litter, they looked fine, but as time progresses you start seeing insecurities. You could not see these at seven or eight weeks, but by three to eight months you will. That's why the two MOST important element in getting a pup to me, is 1) genetics, 2) knowledge of the breeder........it is no coincidence that people like Chris Wild or Carmen Duggan have been immensely successful in placing successful pups in home. They have good genetics, and as breeders they know there stock and understand what they are seeing based on knowledge of their stock.....obviously there are other breeders as well, I just used them randomly.
All breeders are not knowledgable and all stock is not strong genetically, but when those two pieces are in place, you have very good chance of getting a good pup.
|08-12-2013 08:06 AM|
|robk||I have a new WL female from completely different lines than my male. She is now 14 weeks old. I "think" I can all ready tell what i have in her but am trying to reserve judgement until she is a little older. I can tell, however, that she is very different from my male in many many ways. Some I like, others I don't like.|
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