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Thread: Stability in GSD Disappearing. Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-17-2013 06:00 PM
KristiM I ran into an old aquintance a while back at an agility trial, turns out she has a WL dog from the same breeder I got Odin from. So we got to talking, she said that her dog was such a nerve bag that it couldn't compete in agility, scared of its own shadow etc etc. I ran into her again about a month later at a park and spent about 5 minuttes chatting, her dog was on leash, mine were still in the car. It took 5 minutes for me to think "ohhh, your dog is fine, YOU are the problem." Everything the dog looked at or alerted to, the handler REACTED to "what was that???" "Did you see something that scared you??" etc. Do that over an over again to an alert dog and soon you have a dog that needs to be medicated to be in public.

I don't consider a GSD to be a beginner dog and in the hands of very beginner people (or people just not suited to the breed) I think you will see problems. Now obviously its not always the handler, I have met plenty of dogs that had a screw or two loose. But just something to think about.

The breeder I got Odin from pumps out at least a dozen litters of puppies per year, (which is why I didn't get a second dog from her) so I have a few trainer friends that get a lot of her dogs in their classes and for private training. Same thing, dogs are way too much for the handlers, out of control, reactive etc. All of the trainers that I know say the same thing, the dogs are just too much for the particualr handlers. All of her dogs that go to experienced handlers turn out pretty awesome (Odin included)
01-17-2013 05:51 PM
Jack's Dad Thanks Doc but I'm only too aware that my mind is "limited" in many areas.
01-17-2013 05:45 PM
Doc IMO unless you experienced life around a well bred balanced German shepherd from the 60s or 70s, one's mindset is limited as to what this breed is suppose to be. Like Anne said, there was something "different" about those dogs.
01-17-2013 05:36 PM
Jack's Dad
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA View Post
while I do think one can find a well balanced dog..Your not alone Andy, I've seen alot of unstable dogs I wouldn't want over the years. So yes they are out there, do I see a 'growth' of them? Not really only because I'm not as involved in the clubs/showing aspect any more so I don't see to many to begin with

Of course I read about them all the time via the net, people with issues, and one can only wonder is it genetics? is it bad training? uneducated owners? bad placement? I think it can be any of the above.
I agree that there are other factor beside breeding. Breeding is however, the base from which everything else relies.

If you get a dog that is unsound, unstable, bad nerves it can be worked with but will never have the positive characteristics that most desire.

Doesn't mean it's a bad dog but one you may need to watch very carefully for its life.

A stable dog even with a mediocre owner will still be stable.
01-17-2013 05:27 PM
Jack's Dad If it weren't for pet homes Breeders could close up shop.

The amount of people involved in Schutzhund, SAR, PSA or anything else you can think of are a small fraction of the GSD population.

I have no proof but I would guess that at a minimum 80% of all GSDs are pets. So who do you think winds up with the dogs that have lousy nerves.
Most venues won't allow a dog with bad nerve to even attempt SAR so where do you (general you) think those dogs go. ?

I don't do Schutzhund but if a dog appears not up to it where does it go?

Pet homes.

When I say get out more I mean visit some pet people and see if you find the kind of dogs many of you speak of.

If people are only concerned about finding the type of GSD they want and don't care about the breed over all, I don't know what to say.

It's kind of like living in a mansion and not believing there are very many homeless because there are none on your street.
01-17-2013 05:14 PM
JakodaCD OA while I do think one can find a well balanced dog..Your not alone Andy, I've seen alot of unstable dogs I wouldn't want over the years. So yes they are out there, do I see a 'growth' of them? Not really only because I'm not as involved in the clubs/showing aspect any more so I don't see to many to begin with

Of course I read about them all the time via the net, people with issues, and one can only wonder is it genetics? is it bad training? uneducated owners? bad placement? I think it can be any of the above.
01-17-2013 05:05 PM
Mrs.K
Quote:
Perhaps some of you who have been raised around GSDs your entire life or those active in Schutzhund and other sports need to get out more.
Need to get out more? I don't know how much more out I could have possibly been exposed to the breed. Yeah, I have not been exposed to BYB's and I am glad I wasn't! Why would you want to be exposed to crap breeding like that? Plus I've been travelling a lot in and around NY for SAR purposes and I've seen a lot of SAR dogs, mainly Shepherds and those I've seen were good quality dogs. Solid dogs. I've only seen two dogs that shouldn't be doing it. One is a Shepherd, the other one a lab.

I've seen two American pet line Shepherds that had no drive whatsoever but that's what the owners wanted them for and other than that nothing special. Just one single dog that I didn't trust but the owner has done an excellent job with working that dog.

Quote:
You should be more clear as to who that quote is directed at and how you know who those people are. Just for clarity.
Do I really have to clarify that? Come on...

Quote:
My thread may not be as exciting as (What kind of Soda one drinks) or (The Wedding Thread) but I thought it was an appropriate topic.
Never even looked into one of those
01-17-2013 04:44 PM
Jack's Dad Perhaps some of you who have been raised around GSDs your entire life or those active in Schutzhund and other sports need to get out more.

I have an example that happened this morning. Zena was barking so my wife went out to see what was up. It was one of our neighbors walking his black GSD of unknown (to us) origin. He asked about Zena and my wife asked about his dog. He said she was really sweet but afraid of everything, meaning dogs and people.

If this was an isolated example in the real world away from Schutzhund and those who are surrounded with very sound dogs, then it wouldn't be worth mentioning. My experience in the pet population is that it is not uncommon at all.

Quote Mrs. K However, people don't even know the difference between a "protective" and "fear aggressive" dog. So how do you expect them to make a sound judgement what the heart of the dog truly is?

You should be more clear as to who that quote is directed at and how you know who those people are. Just for clarity.

This is a German Shepherd forum and my main interest is the breed. Breeding, Training, and Temperament.

My thread may not be as exciting as (What kind of Soda one drinks) or (The Wedding Thread) but I thought it was an appropriate topic.

Anne: Thanks for your usual common sense approach and for sharing your knowledge with us and if you don't post often anymore I sure do understand why.
01-17-2013 04:11 PM
Mrs.K
Quote:
Maybe I've been lucky. I've rarely known a German Shepherd to be unstable, without good reason.
Me too and I grew up with dozens and dozens and dozens of dogs. My family bred through the Alphabet three times and if you take an average of 5 per litter, that's over 300 dogs, not speaking of brood bitches, males, dogs that came in to be trained, that were bought and sold, etc.
And most of the time it was more than five pups, sometimes less.
So this is just an estimate.

Were there weak nerved dogs? Absolutely, but I barely got in contact with these kind of dogs at all. Maybe it's because my parents had such a high standard or maybe I selectively remember.

However, people don't even know the difference between a "protective" and "fear aggressive" dog. So how do you expect them to make a sound judgement what the heart of the dog truly is?
01-17-2013 02:54 PM
Chicagocanine
Quote:
Originally Posted by julie87 View Post
Exactly. This forum is mostly dog owners are posting either behavior issues or health issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
I joined this forum before I got my dog, though. So I would have been here either way...if I'd ended up with a dog with issues or not I still would have been posting.
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