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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-27-2014 03:29 PM
Cheyanna I am training Fiona with a professional trainer. Most organizations cannot or do not cross train dogs for people with multiple disabilities. I was told to pick which disability.

I am annoyed by fake service dogs, but I don't want government butting its nose in my disability business. Taking away the ability to self train would hurt PWD like me. Most organizations want you to fundraise to pay for the dog. The organization that accepted me gave me a year to raise $24,000. In 2 years, I have spent about $10,000 self training. The professional trainer takes payments every few weeks so no giant scary payments.

I do think a SD should pass basic obedience tests and not be a barking nuisance in public. Although some SD bark to alert the handler. Fiona seems to know when I am engrossed in something at work, she will bark to tell me "hey, someone is trying to talk to you."


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02-23-2014 10:03 AM
kmbjbb One other thing I have done. With my previous dog (not a GSD) we had issues in my neighborhood and needless to say, dog had to be washed out. Same neighbors and issues created issues with my daughter's dog and he became aggressive and had to be put down.

The Town Hall is working with me on this. They already know and understand the need for me to have a service dog. I have provided them with links and copies of the ADA law, revised copy, the DOJ letter for businesses as well as a copy of the statute for my state regarding SDiTs (Service Dog in Training). We had a little meeting, and things were brought up at a Town Council meeting. Our quarterly newsletter that I recently got, had a 2 page spread (it's only a 4 page newsletter) on the laws and consequences for injuring them and all kinds of stuff. So far, with my new GSD, I have not had a problem. By request of the Town Council, I use only orange leashes and an orange bandanna (currently plain). The neighborhoods have been told about the possibility of a GSD wearing orange and to "leave it alone". We now have more police patrols and they have all met with Piper and love her. 6 officers of the County Sheriff's Dept live in my neighborhood. We are all working together and the 3 people responsible for my washed out puppy and been put on notice. The dog that keeps getting out will be put top sleep if he's out again (8 times in 1 year). He is in training to be an aggressive guard dog and will attack. HE is the reason my daughter is scared to go outside and why her dog had to be put down.

Sorry this turned out so long, but I mainly wanted to say, get involved with your neighborhoods and the local police. It will help greatly.
02-23-2014 09:28 AM
kmbjbb I am coming in late to this. I am currently owner training with the assistance of a trainer.

We have the basics to work on at this time and also remedial socialization as my pup was never socialized. Plans are to get the remedial and the basics done, then move onto the 3 levels of Canine Life and Social Skills obedience training. After that, the plan is to do the CGC. I am not sure if my trainer has anything with a PAT or not, but I can pull up some and let her see. Otherwise, we will move onto task training. Mine will be a Hearing Assistance Dog.

As far as "uniform". While they are not required and GSDs can get warm if the temps are too hot, I suggest checking into specific state laws before making a decision. In my case, where I am now, there's no requirement (that I can see), but where we are moving to in a few years, at this time, does require Hearing Assistance Dogs, (Hearing Guide Dogs) to have orange on. Did not say it had to be a vest or what. I have a cape style vest to use and will also have bandannas.

If people were to follow the law, and do the right thing, there should not be the problem with untrained owner trained SDs. It takes doing homework in finding the right trainer. Some charge very little and some charge more. Some will even do a barter system like mine.

I don't mind certification, but only if it is accepting of owner trainers. Too many things I have seen proposed from various people and such are leaving out the OTers. Also, there are issues with the CGC. Not all OTers live close enough to certified examiners (is that the word I want). In one case, I know this person would have to travel more than 300 miles to one.

I am kind of new to all this, but I felt like chiming in.
02-01-2014 02:16 PM
aelira I think the only real way to deal with the issue of fraudulent service dog teams is to make it clear to businesses that they don't have to tolerate inappropriate and/or disruptive behavior from a SD in their establishment. Not saying this would be easy because it would require a lot of educating on the part of legitimate teams or training programs. Dealing with the behavior of a badly trained dog and a handler that is just dragging it around with them is really the only way to go without the logistical nightmare of a government-run certification program. This coming from someone who isn't going to worry about a dog in public unless it is causing problems for myself or others.
11-17-2013 08:11 AM
Hercules I personally am against having professionally trained dogs only because I have two service dogs that I trained myself and I would never even be able to have one because of the cost. Also if only professional trainers can train dogs then the cost will sky rocket and seeing as how they are too high for a lot of people as it is...

Also, just because a dog is professionally trained, it does't mean they behave better than owner trained dogs. I have had a few instances where i was in out with my one of my dogs and I had professionally trained dogs freaking out and barking and lunging at my dog while mine laid on the ground looking to me for direction.

While yes the ADA laws do get abused, if it becomes more strict, I fear people like me who can't afford to get a professionally trained dog would be SOL.
01-22-2013 11:18 PM
SFGSSD
Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post

So no tag, certification, or anything will get over the fact that people just aren't educated in how to figure out who's real and who isn't. United States Service Dog Registry sounds sweet and official, but anyone that knows anything about the law would know that any kind of official registration or license would come from the STATE they live in and not a national registry. It's a start...but again, its meaningless since they can't break ADA either and its just as easy to lie to them and get your dog registered as it would be to strap on a vest and walk into Walmart without the registration.
Police Officers wear a uniform, have a badge and ID (you can spot them a mile away if you are looking for them). If you have these things and are NOT a Police Officer you are guilty of impersonating a Police Officer and I believe that is a felony with jail time. Why can it not be as simple as that when it comes to a Service Dog? Why do you feel more education on the confusion is going to help? Where before it was just a guess... now it is an "Educated Guess"? And that is better than real clarity to the general public?
Laws need to be enforced and stricter laws with tougher fines for illegal activity. Like that "Undercover" reporter serving jail time for impersonating a disabled person to gain privileges under the ADA. Yeah that person can go "Undercover" in jail all they want
01-16-2013 12:22 PM
martemchik
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFGSSD View Post
Now you are talking about the government getting involved, there is no way around that if you want tougher laws. Is there a way around that?
The law is a problem within itself. I see Service Dog registries get ridiculed for providing an ID and or vest to disabled people that owner trains there dog. To be fair I would say 2 of them that I know personally actually just want to make things easier on the disabled person when it comes to public access challenges. Do fakers take advantage of these registries and LIE to them to? Yes, do the 2 that I know of wish they could VERIFY that the person requesting a SD vest and/or ID is in fact disabled and qualifies for a SD under the ADA? YES! BUT, it is ILLEGAL for them to ask to verify this. So, let’s not forget that fakers (Even the “Undercover” people) that told these registries that they require this because of a disability committed PERGERY and are also impersonating a disabled person to gain benefits and privileges afforded to PWD. Do they also wish they could verify that the dog is actually TRAINED to acceptable levels of competency? YES, but again, “Certification” is not a requirement under law. So the United States Service Dog Registry is just trying to help while staying within the law. They did not do anything Illegal, the people that committed a crime to obtain their services did. Are there other ones that offer fake certification and take advantage of the unknowing Yes! But not all of them take advantage PWD’s they are just trying to help make life easier on the PWD. You cannot blame someone for not doing something if it is ILLEGAL to do so. You also cannot blame someone for someone else’s CRIME.
Is a vest or ID required under law? NO, but let’s be honest here, If you think people checking ID’s and certifications is a hassle, go to a few places without a vest or anything identifying on your SD and see exactly how far you get without being challenged, again and again and again.
But again...a vest is easily made or ordered online. An ID can easily be made or ordered online. This doesn't have anything to do with service dogs but there is a dog beach in the Chicago area that charges people for use. If you live in the city that its in, the tag is like $50 for the year. If you live outside the city its like $300 for the year. I have friends that use that beach, they have friends that live in the city (with a dog), those people purchased a tag (just a purple bone dog tag), and then the other ones just ordered the same exact kind...font, color, size, I'm saying IDENTICAL, to that one online. So now they have like 5 or 6 of them that they give to their friends whenever someone wants to use the beach with them. There's a teenage park employee that sits at the gate to the beach and checks for the tags, so anyone with a purple tag just walks in (tags change colors yearly). Is it wrong? Yes! But who is going to spend $300 for their dog to use a 50 yard stretch of beach on lake michigan (which you can't even swim in half the time).

So no tag, certification, or anything will get over the fact that people just aren't educated in how to figure out who's real and who isn't. United States Service Dog Registry sounds sweet and official, but anyone that knows anything about the law would know that any kind of official registration or license would come from the STATE they live in and not a national registry. It's a start...but again, its meaningless since they can't break ADA either and its just as easy to lie to them and get your dog registered as it would be to strap on a vest and walk into Walmart without the registration.

Wanna make it easier? Wear sunglasses...I was at our state fair this year for a dog event with my dog. When I walked out into the actual fair with him, I got asked at least 10 times if he was my guide dog...and it didn't matter that I was clearly leading him the whole time.
01-16-2013 01:51 AM
SFGSSD
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeaneneR View Post
Other suggestions?

Some strict laws for faking a service dog and accurate coverage of court cases where people are caught faking. Even certification isn't going to help if there are no laws in place that lay out the punishments of actual faking. As it stands now there aren't any real reasons for people not to fake... what's the worst that's going to happen to most of them? They get asked to leave...

I'll admit that we don't really have a huge problem with faking in my area, we do have a very minor problem with people who have doctors notes and their doctors don't know what a service dog is anymore than they are... but most of those are willing to be educated.
Now you are talking about the government getting involved, there is no way around that if you want tougher laws. Is there a way around that?
The law is a problem within itself. I see Service Dog registries get ridiculed for providing an ID and or vest to disabled people that owner trains there dog. To be fair I would say 2 of them that I know personally actually just want to make things easier on the disabled person when it comes to public access challenges. Do fakers take advantage of these registries and LIE to them to? Yes, do the 2 that I know of wish they could VERIFY that the person requesting a SD vest and/or ID is in fact disabled and qualifies for a SD under the ADA? YES! BUT, it is ILLEGAL for them to ask to verify this. So, let’s not forget that fakers (Even the “Undercover” people) that told these registries that they require this because of a disability committed PERGERY and are also impersonating a disabled person to gain benefits and privileges afforded to PWD. Do they also wish they could verify that the dog is actually TRAINED to acceptable levels of competency? YES, but again, “Certification” is not a requirement under law. So the United States Service Dog Registry is just trying to help while staying within the law. They did not do anything Illegal, the people that committed a crime to obtain their services did. Are there other ones that offer fake certification and take advantage of the unknowing Yes! But not all of them take advantage PWD’s they are just trying to help make life easier on the PWD. You cannot blame someone for not doing something if it is ILLEGAL to do so. You also cannot blame someone for someone else’s CRIME.
Is a vest or ID required under law? NO, but let’s be honest here, If you think people checking ID’s and certifications is a hassle, go to a few places without a vest or anything identifying on your SD and see exactly how far you get without being challenged, again and again and again.
01-16-2013 12:23 AM
JeaneneR Other suggestions?

Some strict laws for faking a service dog and accurate coverage of court cases where people are caught faking. Even certification isn't going to help if there are no laws in place that lay out the punishments of actual faking. As it stands now there aren't any real reasons for people not to fake... what's the worst that's going to happen to most of them? They get asked to leave...

I'll admit that we don't really have a huge problem with faking in my area, we do have a very minor problem with people who have doctors notes and their doctors don't know what a service dog is anymore than they are... but most of those are willing to be educated.
01-15-2013 10:20 AM
SFGSSD
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeaneneR View Post

I would hazard to guess that the only people who know the laws are programs and legitimate teams.. which helps no one. Most of the time local law enforcement doesn't even know state and federal law.
Is this ever the truth! Not only are a good number of law enforcement officers blind to what the ADA says a Service Dog is, they are also not aware of laws specifically in there state that cover SD's and SD trainers.



While educating people about SD's and PWD is a must, most still do not take what they know or learned seriously. How many times has anyone with a SD been out in public and someone said to you "I know I am not supposed to but..." Why do they continue to do it? How many cases are there when the law was actually enforced for the PWD and the media covered it? The owner trainer is challenged with all sorts confusion both from their dog not being from a program, clearly identified, and the law that surrounds what can and cannot be done in a owner trainer capacity. Besides education, what are some other suggestions?
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