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Thread: Schutzhund to PPD a natural possible Progression ? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-12-2012 11:39 AM
pets4life a good arm bite? have you ever been grabbed by the wrist by a trained gsd? do you know what will happen to you?

Anyways this is not a 50/50 chance you are with your dog you dont just let your dog fight someone you should be there knocking the person out and then calling the police.

leaving any dog by itself to do sentry in a high risk area is just stupid because you can poison them pretty easy or drug them alone in a field if you are not close by.
12-04-2012 12:03 PM
Dr. Teeth A dog well trained on a sleeve can be trained to do additional things. As for the knife though, a good arm bite gives him a 50/50 chance but anywhere else, and the dog is probably done.

Has anyone trained a dog to only go after the arm with the weapon? what if there is no weapon?

Schutzhund should be a good foundation to see where you and the dog want to go from there.


That is the ONLY downside I can see to the training. Would think the carry over to full suit bite training would be straightforward. But again, never done the training, hence the questions.

Thank you for the kind response....[/QUOTE]
12-03-2012 10:03 PM
summercricks I do SchH with my gsd and we just started this past summer so I'm still learning but herding isn't in SchH in America. I never really did research about it in other countries. I believe herding is a separate title here. I understand now how SchH could help you though. Be careful schutzhund is very addictive Wish you the best of luck with your new pup once you get him! This forum will give you a lot of information that the rest of the Internet won't from experienced people.

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12-03-2012 07:26 PM
lone Ranger Thank you Pets4Life,
I love puppies, and I had such a great loyalty bond with my one GSD Dog Cody, he responds almost instinctively. I do not know if I am just lucky or not, but I put it off to the initial 24/7 bonding between us everyday.

For about $4000 I could get a Black 2 year old, already started, bait training poison proof, responding in PPD, attack trained, and in a program for PPD. This would be a CHEAP option, however: The problem is I feel I could never fully trust him around children, maybe my own Grandchildren, without that bond. He would just be a functional PPD machine.. That is why I do not get a green dog, year old or something... Maybe I am wrong, but based on my experience that puppy bond to about one year old is essential for me...

Summercricks In my research, I found that Herding and tracking is part of the Schutzhund Programs copied on the German scale. They actually use them herding sheep, as the larger dog could protect the sheep from dingos and wolves in Europe. Herding with hand signals or whistle code, would enhance my life as my assistant best mate. Further I thought the sleeve training would instill enough confidence, that if the Pup was stellar in performance I could look for a Trainer to go to the next level. The Dog is very vulnerable in the sleeve training, to an attacker with a knife for instance. I will go to a SchH Club for awhile and then re-assess the potential, as SchH is common where PPD is very rare, especially if you are protective about your Best Mate and do not want to board him at a PPD Trainer far away. Hope this explains why in my inexperience, I thought SchH could be a natural progression starting point... Note, I could be wrong, if if the resources were more common as in America, I might take another trail. But here? Imagine West Texas population density, even less, only about 4000 kms long... Heh he, Mind you the coast is much like California, and that where I live. But still, lower population density, like 18,000 kms of coast, with only about the population of California.. heh he

Kind regards from Oz...
12-03-2012 01:14 AM
pets4life its a nice foundation for a young pup who eventually wants to be a ppd. If the club is a good club with good trainers that keep an open mind that the owner would like to cross train or just trian in ppd one day. For the first year id just train in sch then with a good club.

Id prefer to get a green started dog that already has the foundation though. Then u can go straight to PP with a very good trainer if you can find one. Good luck with that though.
12-01-2012 11:02 PM
summercricks Maybe someone can explain this to me but I don't understand why schutzhund could really help you with what you want to do with this pup. I can see where obedience can help you but I'm sure it doesn't have to be as correct competition is. But in protection many dogs wouldn't just bite without a sleeve even with a command. Also, I don't see how tracking can help you herd. I thought those were pretty different. Correct me if I'm wrong in these aspects I just don't understand why schutzhund can help except in the fact that you want to bond but that can be done without schutzhund. I'm pretty new to the sport and constantly learning more about it and wondering if I'm missing something.

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12-01-2012 06:51 AM
lone Ranger I would like to thank all of you for your responses...

I think I will have him as a "Best Mate" and just go as far as I can with him... I an aim high, and accept what I get. I am also thinking I will start another when he is 18 months or so. SchutzHund will not be for any Competitive sport, just training ideas and practice. PPD Training will be icing on the cake if he is even suited, and it may not be necessary.

Thank you, to all of you, helping me get through losing Cody and evaluating all of my training mistakes to start this new Black GSD Pup. I do not have to get all the way to PPD, a good Bluff counts for a lot, and I could end up with two of them out around the fire in the Bush. I have two now as long as Cody hangs in there.

Thanks again, a wonderful Forum.. My plan is "Best Mate and Companion first", and what ever training he takes on is a bonus. I think I have progressed enough, that if he is totally unsuited, I will find him a Family home, and start over.. Cody does a good bluff, aggression on command and advancing to meet until I call him off.. Odd looking strangers seek permission to get out of their car. Never had to take it further.

I appreciate your input...
11-30-2012 11:26 AM
lhczth Yes, it is possible with the right dog and the right training. I have done it myself and also have trained with quite a few people that also did PP with their SchH dogs. The hard part will be finding the right people to train with and also in finding the dog that has the social aggression needed to be a PPD.
11-30-2012 12:37 AM
lone Ranger Onyx's Girl, Wow...

I am with you on the handgun... But we do not have them in Oz.. Near nil handguns, rifles and shotguns strictly controlled and NO interstate travel with them. Get caught, forget the fine, lose your State Licence and they come get the rest of your guns

On Pups Bloodline: I only remember "German Working Dog" Lines, because I would not recognize the rest. I have requested name brands from the Breeder. The Parents are desireable traits and bigger straight back builds, Bitch is a kennel rescued Breeder and protective, and the Dog is a two year old high drive Eastern European Schutzhund training sort... Best I could do not recognizing names and wanting good people Breeders, even then they are 3 1/2 hours away. It is a whole days journey to see my pup. The other options were bad blood hustlers 1000-2000 kms away... Or standard Show Dog types an hour away... Neithe appealing. Cody took a surprising turn for the worse and I was motivated. Took the best I could find in a few weeks of search pattern.

Onyx's Girl, Thank you for the alternatives and guidance.... lone Ranger in Oz..
11-29-2012 11:37 PM
onyx'girl pets4life...I was just at a seminar with some police K9 handlers from the Netherlands. They start dogs as soon as teething is finished and can tell from the get go whether or not the dog has 'it'. If the dog doesn't show courage in the early stage of training, it will not show it at maturity.
They begin the training with trialing in mind, and the ultimate goal is to have the dog get high points in trial then be sold as a police k9 and used in breeding programs.
Though these people do not work with GSD's but the Dutch shepherds...and not the nervy ones we see too often here in the US.

If I needed personal protection no matter where I live, I'd have a gun.
Lone Ranger, what is your new black pups pedigree?
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