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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-29-2012 01:20 PM
kbella999 When I got Rusti she was very heavily obedient trained from her previous owner. She could only work on one side of me in agility. Even taking her to the park to walk and get her to walk on both sides was a challenge. I jokingly said she was blind in one eye. After a lot of work, she can now work on both sides of me but she is still a velcro girl but not as bad as she used to be.
11-29-2012 11:21 AM
MaggieRoseLee
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO View Post
I have seen dogs have the same problem that Liesje had-the dog not willing to work on the right. My trainer has worked with a few dogs like this and while it took a lot of work to get through it, they are getting better, but it can create a lot of extra work.
I've also seen this be a problem, along with the dog being comfortable with a distance away from the handler. The default position in obedience is against the handlers leg on the left side and that's not going to help on an agility course.

Big influence of obedience vs agility is how the obedience was taught. Older strict correction based (leash based) obedience tends to suck the fun out of training with mom/dad. Also does NOT reward offering new behaviors and allowing our dogs to think for themselves. When your dog is always on leash with a training collar it's much easier to 'make' the dog do something rather than off leash training that makes we handlers figure out a smarter way to TEACH the dog to figure it out. Agility has TONS of things our dogs need to do on their own and figure out on their own with their focus on the course and NOT pinned on the handler 100% of the time.

More positive based obedience with clickers/markers/treats/toys and the dogs happy attitude being a priority RATHER THAN JUST THE FOCUS BE THE BEHAVIOR (no care if the dog is slow/reluctant/hating it all... as long as they do it then that's the goal) tends to give a better overlap with agility and doing well.

There are MANY obedience dogs that also do very well with agility. But it tends to have alot to do with the way the obedience was taught plus the handler being aware of the needs in both sports.

Interesting (and painful to watch) story I saw a few years ago at an agility trial from a guy who CLEARLY came from the obedience world and decided he could easily teach this 'agility' on his own in the yard (who needs classes!). He had some big dog (malinois? GSD? Belgian? I can't remember). He set the large dog at the start line, did a lead out, released the dog that did a wonderful job of going fast over the 1st jump, headed fast for the next (and correct jump) but was going to be ahead of the handler so the guy CALLED THE DOG BACK so they could go together. Then the guy sent the dog over the next jump (again the dog is ahead ) so the guy AGAIN calls the dog back by saying 'heel'. IT WAS CRAZY! The guy took this fast drivey dog and literally got it back into 'heel' position after each piece of equipment. Of course the run was a nightmare of off courses and refusals and confusion for the poor dog. Plus the guy was FURIOUS cause I'm sure he was so embarrassed by his dog ( ) in front of everyone. I was so pissed when I saw him leash his dog up after the run and you could see he was angry as he aggressively corrected and heeled that poor wonderful dog off the trial grounds.
11-29-2012 12:33 AM
martemchik
Quote:
Originally Posted by llombardo View Post
In order to position mine I use the side command to get her in a good sit, then I run it with her on my right. It works because she is in the sit/stay position. Today they had me go way ahead of her while she was in a sit/stay, if I don't do it that way, she passes me up. So either she's really fast or I'm really slow
Yeah I need to teach him another command for the right side...just haven't gotten around to it. A lot of it is handler error though, so hard not to say "heel" when he's not right next to me and even if I don't say it he wants to go on the left side most times. It's a blast though...I haven't been this aggravated with training since we learned to take the dumbbell. Really brings you back and you have to remember that they will make mistakes at this point. I expect close to perfection in obedience, and what really gets to me is when he doesn't listen/ignores me. Tough when starting out in agility because it is so open and so fun, don't want to squash that drive, but also don't want to allow him to do what he wants.
11-28-2012 11:51 PM
llombardo
Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
It gets difficult when I have to "position" him before an obstacle and he's on my right (I tell him to be on my right) but he'll run on either side of me and will stay there as long as I don't say "heel."
In order to position mine I use the side command to get her in a good sit, then I run it with her on my right. It works because she is in the sit/stay position. Today they had me go way ahead of her while she was in a sit/stay, if I don't do it that way, she passes me up. So either she's really fast or I'm really slow
11-28-2012 11:41 PM
martemchik My dog had a CD on him and was training for CDX before I even started agility. I see no problem in it. Its actually helpful because there are certain commands he knows and I know that I have complete control of him in most situations. It gets difficult when I have to "position" him before an obstacle and he's on my right (I tell him to be on my right) but he'll run on either side of me and will stay there as long as I don't say "heel." In my opinion, its nice to have some obedience on a dog before starting agility (if you're just starting out and haven't been training for both at the same time) because they just listen better and have some expectations on them.

I do have to add...I did directive jumping, and other agility introductions before I officially joined a class, so that might be why he's fine with many of the things we do in agility.

And I believe that all competitive obedience rings require a left side heel. I don't believe any require a command to switch to the right.
11-28-2012 11:29 PM
llombardo Oddly enough when I went to agility today a small pit bull wouldn't do anything unless it was on the left. I have never seen it before today. She is a smart little girl and it is beginning agility so I think that her owner can work with her.
11-28-2012 11:16 PM
KristiM
Quote:
Originally Posted by x11 View Post
not sure but i think some protection sports don't have a preference for what side you heel?

so if these obedience dogs are so obedient should they not be able to be directed equally left or right without issue - that would be obedience not programming.
Competitive style obedience really has very little to do with actual "obedience" it's more of a precise dance than anything.
11-28-2012 11:12 PM
Liesje
Quote:
Originally Posted by x11 View Post
not sure but i think some protection sports don't have a preference for what side you heel?
SDA requires left side:

"c. Scoring the Heeling on Leash Exercise.The dog should always heel close to the left knee of the handler and the shoulder blade of the dog should be aligned next to the handlerís knee. Dogs that demonstrate positive, energetic, and attentive attention to the handler are very desirable for awarding full points."
11-28-2012 11:09 PM
Liesje
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristiM View Post
Ya I can definitely see why that would cause more of an issue!

It used to drive me nuts watching all of the obedience people dabble in agility, refusing I run the dog on their right because it was an obedience dog and everything had to be on the left! That was over 10 years ago though, and I see the same people now running agility on both sides I guess they figured out that their obedience dog wouldn't melt if they worked it on the right lol.

See, I don't say my dog can't run on the right because I think that will damage his obedience. I WISH he WOULD run on the right! But considering his level of training and *how* the training was done, the only context he knows is that the right is the "wrong" side and might get him serious corrections. So with that in mind I want him to have fun doing agility, so I run him on the left. I'm not worried about agility interfering with his obedience.
11-28-2012 10:59 PM
Mikelia I had the hardest time running the dogs on my left. My gsd had no issue with either side - so long as I was giving clear signals with my body. By border collie x had a harder time, she defaults to proper heel position. She still struggles on the odd sequence if it is on my right but really it was me. It took me a LONG time to adjust to running the dogs on my right lol.
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