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Thread: "Should I breed my dog?" Flowchart Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-25-2015 02:50 PM
selzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by me, myself and I View Post
wow, I am impressed on how quick my post got responses... since I do now want to be an internet troll (fyi, best definition I have found for this is on wikipidia under "internet troll" Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)), I will not defend myself. doing such will end up in nothing short of that.
but I will say this; Selzer, I never once stated I know of a dog that someone did that with, or am considering doing it myself, actually I don't. I just know people, and unfortunately most people are greedy and corrupt, common sense tells me this, not only can happen, but most likely has. and I will further state, there is a possibility that if you breed, one of your breeding animals came from this kind of stock many generations back. maybe so far back it would be impossible to trace. same holds true for our family tree's, there is a possibility, somewhere in your ancestry, someone faked a document for whatever reason and there is an ancestor that is of a race or people not accepted to reproduce with your family, at the time, or a marriage that didn't happen when the marriage certificate states it did or whatever. now, that I do personally know of happening, the marriage certificate being faked part, I mean...
No, you did not state it. But I guess you were just sitting on a pebble by the water, playing your guitar, and thought, gee, if someone had a dog that they did not have breeding rights to, and it impregnated a bitch, and they knew of or had another dog, and could just claim that one was the pop, they would be free and clear, and all purebred dogs are just a joke because that is probably what everyone does anyway.

Going on a purebred dog site and saying the whole idea that dogs are purebred is a joke, is about as close to trolling as you can get without actually breaking board rules, and one of the ones, inciting riots, one of the mods around here could probably make a case for.

What you fail to recognize and what most of the people here do recognize is that we have to trust the breeder to a certain extent, and if we don't, we should not buy a puppy from them. Good breeders deal with people they know and trust, who have a reputation. They look at the dogs they are breeding to, know their backgrounds and see what that has carried forward in that dog, and in the dogs they produce. They look at dogs the dog produces. It matters who the dogs are behind our dogs. Someone just getting into the whole thing, who is just putting a dog with a bitch, might do a lot of things that are unethical or foolish, as with anything else. But most of us would recognize enough foolishness or questionmarks with such a one, that we will have dismissed them from our list of potential breeders long before we discuss pedigrees.
03-24-2015 01:38 PM
Liesje LOL so now we are comparing breeding dogs with shotgun weddings? I personally have pretty high standards for breeders and their breeding stock. I don't make decisions about whether I breed my dog (and with which females) based on such low standards. Just because some people are lazy and will breed anything with reproductive organs doesn't mean that all breeders must be really crappy people with no ethics or direction in their breeding program. I know our breed has some problems but I don't have that dire of a view.
03-24-2015 12:57 PM
gsdheeler WOW, Really??? You can keep your 2 cents.
03-24-2015 10:15 AM
me, myself and I wow, I am impressed on how quick my post got responses... since I do now want to be an internet troll (fyi, best definition I have found for this is on wikipidia under "internet troll" Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)), I will not defend myself. doing such will end up in nothing short of that.
but I will say this; Selzer, I never once stated I know of a dog that someone did that with, or am considering doing it myself, actually I don't. I just know people, and unfortunately most people are greedy and corrupt, common sense tells me this, not only can happen, but most likely has. and I will further state, there is a possibility that if you breed, one of your breeding animals came from this kind of stock many generations back. maybe so far back it would be impossible to trace. same holds true for our family tree's, there is a possibility, somewhere in your ancestry, someone faked a document for whatever reason and there is an ancestor that is of a race or people not accepted to reproduce with your family, at the time, or a marriage that didn't happen when the marriage certificate states it did or whatever. now, that I do personally know of happening, the marriage certificate being faked part, I mean...
03-24-2015 02:04 AM
Stonevintage Well, for me it was all "go" until the last box on the left hand side. "Does your dog's pedigree contain at least four dogs with working,conformation,agility or obedience titles in the last 2 generations?

For my pup, one gen back AKC but no show/competition, 2 gens back foreign registry with no record but bearing known USA respected names; 3-7 gens back, tons of titles everywhere.

My point is, one of the first blocks for "yes/no" to breeding should have been - "is your dog oversize for breed standard" yes/no. Deal killer with my oversize female.
03-23-2015 09:38 PM
selzer I am interested in the two average dogs that make a grand champion myself. But, it makes sense that you can then breed such a dog to another grand champion and get a very average litter. Because the progeny are a combination of the dogs behind them, not just the sire and dam. And a pedigree of VA dogs or champions is more likely to net you a VA dog or champion than a couple of average dogs. VA is by the way Excellent Select, so none of those dogs would be average.

In the end it comes from your last paragraph. You know of a dog that oughtn't to have been bred, and was bred, and is now being used with a pedigree that is incorrect. No, most of us who are breeding would not do this, nor would we breed a dog that we knew had a falsified pedigree.

Could it happen? Yes, it could by a small breeder especially, because if you use a sire less then 3 times in a year or 7 times total there is no requirement for DNA on the dog. Which means, your liklihood of being caught go way down, if you can keep your mouth shut. The thing is, it sounds like your person hasn't, and depending on how big of a fish they are, they will be caught sooner or later. The penalty for that is usually a pretty hefty fine and a suspension for a number of years, maybe 10. Hard to say, but if you look at the old AKC Gazettes, they list the breeders whose litters were found incorrect, and I really don't know what all happens, but I think all the pups from such litters are no longer granted papers. And they do give the penalties that the breeders get.

So, it is generally something most of us wouldn't touch with pole. Some of us do use a male who has been used more than 7 times or an import so DNA has been done on them. And the rest of us use dogs with full registration, because they just aren't that hard to come by. Dog doesn't have full registration, he gets knocked off the list of potential stud dogs period.

No one serious about the breed is going to breed to a dog they know has a pedigree that is incorrect because we are not just wanting to see the dogs in front of us, we want to see how the back massing is coming into play, and what traits are coming forth. We want to know what dogs are back there, and what to expect. We want to know that we aren't breeding too closely on dogs that we are uncertain about.

So the post is basically, a post from someone who knows their dog, or a friends dog has an incorrect pedigree, and they want justification to go ahead and use such a dog anyway. Not going to happen.
03-23-2015 09:31 PM
Emoore
Quote:
Originally Posted by me, myself and I View Post
Person after person saying we want "what is best for the breed." I have to seriously laugh at this statement, dogs have been breeding long before we stepped in, nature will automatically do "what's best for the breed" whether any of you like it or not.
Noooo. . . nature will crate a planet full of very hardy mixed breeds. If we let nature take its course there will be no breeds at all in very short order.
03-23-2015 09:19 PM
onyx'girl Without criteria, there will be problems arising. Without new breeders learning how to put together pedigree matches, health testing specific for the breed and keeping themselves held accountable doing it responsibly, what is wrong with that? Mentors are important, and l know of quite a few breeders willing to help others do it responsibly.
Anyone can be a breeder, there is nothing to stop them...and people will buy from them regardless. We all choose who to support as far as breeding practices go.
03-23-2015 02:14 PM
martemchik
Quote:
Originally Posted by me, myself and I View Post
In other words, this entire posting in my humble opinion is a JOKE. But hey, who am I? Just my two cents...

And who are you?
03-23-2015 01:29 PM
Liesje
Quote:
Originally Posted by me, myself and I View Post
I have been around a few breeders in my life and almost without fail (there is always exceptions to any rule) they all try to discourage anyone from getting into breeding, unless for some reason or another it benefits them or they don't feel threatened by that individual. Of course some of you will disagree, but the simple truth is, they do. Just take this flowchart for example, that is all it does is try to discourage someone new from venturing into this endeavor.
My experience has been the opposite. Those I know personally who have been breeding quality dogs for a long time were very supportive of me, helped me through my decisions about breeding, and mentored through the actual process of breeding (FWIW the only breeding animal I own is a male, but it was still a big decision/responsibility for me when deciding whether he was breed quality). It's the armchair breeders who've never actually bred anything that have been the most discouraging and the ones pushing flow charts.
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