Odin's first Box Turns - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-30-2013, 08:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master Member
 
KristiM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 753
Default Odin's first Box Turns

So I joined a flyball club a few weeks ago and they let me borrow a box for the week to work on turns. This is the second time I have had him on the box, I think he did ok. The first few I basically just threw him at the box, but he seemed to start to get it after that and had a few nice turns. I know there are a few flyball people on here....so am I doing it right??? Lol, it's been a looong time since I've done flyball and the dogs I was doing it with previously were half Odin's size. One question I have thought of so far, do I want him hitting all 4 feet a bit higher or a bit lower? In some he hits a bit high and those ones look nicer to me, but I keep hearing people talking about dogs going over boxes?

Odin's first box turns - YouTube

I'm super limited on space (I need a bigger house!) and its like -500 outside right now. Hopefully by the end of the week I can take it outside, so that I can encourage a faster turn off the box, I don't want him getting sticky.
__________________
Odin ~ GSD
Zuri ~ German Coolie

Havoc ~ (aka "Super") GSD - Rest easy buddy.
Keeper ~ (rest in peace little stinker) (Aussie)
KristiM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-30-2013, 09:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,797
Default

Pan has gone over the box a few times but it wasn't because he was too high on the box, it was because he's just so freaking fast and big (for a flyball dog I mean) that if he doesn't get into the turn *before* his front feet hit the box and goes in too straight, his body will twist over the box. I train my dogs a really exaggerated turn at home and have been working Nikon's turns several times a week and he has never gone over the box. And, when he gets back on a normal box he tends to still be low for my preference (see avatar). At home my board is raised and when I borrow a box, I raise that too.

But right now you're just building the technique and muscles so I think it looks really good. It looks like you've got the jump boards with the side panels up so that is forcing the dog to turn and not come off too wide (the one that the dog is turning into is the more important one).
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 09:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
No Stinkin' Leashes Moderator
 
Cassidy's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 29,288
Default

Overall, not bad at all. I'd like to see him a bit higher on the box more consistently though. Sometimes it looks really good, other times he's definitely too low. We aim for all four feet above the white every time when practicing, but of course that can take some time to train, and it's definitely more difficult with larger dogs.

Our club is really big on muscle memory, so we use whatever props are necessary to get the foot placement we want so the dog gets used to doing it the right way, and then we start to fade the props. Because your prop is fairly low and maybe a bit far away from the box, there's nothing to prevent him from touching lower on the box, so that's what I'd change.

Our club let me borrow a box and work on it at home with Halo between practices too, and I tweaked the props a lot until I could get at least 3 feet above the white. Here's an example of the props we would use at practice:



There's not a lot of space between the prop and the box for her feet to slip down, but we sometimes will put the barrels (the three pieces duct taped together) on the inside of the regular prop rather than on the outside, depending on what we're trying to accomplish. Here you can see her butt flying way high as she comes in, which is perfect:



And in this run she comes in fairly high, but when she pushes off she's got one of her back feet in the white:







In this one it looks like both back feet are above the white, which is exactly what I'm looking for:



This is one of the prop setups I used on the push board, before we transitioned to the box - she HAS to have all four feet above the white because it's completely covered by the prop, lol!



These were taken at a tournament last year by the husband of one of the women in the club - I was pretty happy with how her box turn looks here:





Again, she's got one back foot in the white, but her rotation is good, she's going to land right in the middle of the lane, and that's with no props so I'd take it any day.

Most of my training videos are from earlier on, with the push board, not the box, but here's a very short clip where I'm working on fading the prop:


There's a clear prop with foam on top in front of the box, no upright on the left, and on the right there's a low upright to support the prop. You can see that even though we have a LOT of props initially, she maintains her turn once we fade them out.
Cassidy's Mom is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 09:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,797
Default

Hey all our shepherds turn the same way!
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 09:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
No Stinkin' Leashes Moderator
 
Cassidy's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 29,288
Default

Right turners rule!
Cassidy's Mom is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 09:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,797
Default

OK now that my dogs are settled I had a chance to watch the whole thing more carefully. It looks like sometimes he's just sort of stepping over the prop and stepping through the turn. Now I've seen a lot of new dogs that are totally freaked out of a box and take three weeks just to get to the point where they will ever so lightly walk over it, lol, but I think Odin is way beyond that and could progress very quickly. So like Debbie said I think he needs a different prop setup in front of the box. I like to REALLY imprint the dog jumping on, kicking of...sort of an onKICK motion (sorry I can't verbally describe this, lol). Nikon's never going to break any speed records but if there's one place he can make up a little time it's collecting off the box (Pan was the same way, he'd win races where the other dog was beating him to the box, but Pan can turn and kick so hard coming off his turn he's over the jump before the other dog has collected himself from the turn). I like my props farther away from the box *but* in order to prevent the dog going low or tip-toeing around the prop, I elevate the box/board. If the box is on the ground, then just like Debbie said I need a bigger prop closer up. I'm actually working on getting Nikon a little higher up since he's right rear foot is consistently in the white. His turn is good and I've been spending time tightening up the rotation so he comes off straight down the lane. Now that we've progressed here, I'm going back to shaping a higher turn.

Also I can't really tell but it looks like you are pretty close, luring the turn? That is perfectly fine for the beginning. I think you'll see once you can add a little distance, the turn will be a bit more consistent. I made this video last night to show Nikon working with a baby gate along the board and calling him off the box at an exaggerated angle to get him coming back straight, but you can see how at the end when I just do a bunch of reps standing right there, the turns look more awkward whereas at the beginning when I'm sending him form about 7 feet away he pops on, snaps off, and then targets the toy nice and low. (this video is also what made me decide he's still too low and we will be changing up the props to work on that next)
flyball 1 29 13 - YouTube

Once you progress you will also find that the turns get faster and stronger in practice. I'm in the same boat, I only have about 7' of space to work with so really my dogs are just hopping at the box but it's a good way to work on the technique at home and build the muscles. At team practice they put the speed and drive into it and it's very cool and fun to watch! Watching Pan practice turns at home is like watching paint dry, but in a real heat he turns so hard that he throws grown men off the box!
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)


Last edited by Liesje; 01-30-2013 at 10:00 PM.
Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 10:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master Member
 
KristiM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 753
Default

Thanks Liesje and Debbie! I will move the prop a little closer to the box, in our middle set I pulled it out a bit and definitely noticed the turn get sloppy. Wasn't too sure if it should be close or far, thanks for clearing it up! I am also going to increase the height of the prop a bit.

Thanks for the pics, having a visual really helps me understand what i am looking to accomplish. I have been going back and reading all of the flyball posts on here to try and make sure I teach it right from the start. I really want to make sure he has a nice swimmers turn!

One other question, does anyone use pastern braces? I have some neoprene braces that someone talked me into buying for him, just wondering if you think they would be worth using?

Lol havoc is a left turner He won't be participating for a while though.
__________________
Odin ~ GSD
Zuri ~ German Coolie

Havoc ~ (aka "Super") GSD - Rest easy buddy.
Keeper ~ (rest in peace little stinker) (Aussie)
KristiM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 10:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,797
Default

Pan has hock boots and skid boots but they are to protect his stop pads and hocks (he's burned both before). He did tweak his wrist at practice one time so I had him for sure wear his skid boots for a few weeks after that, but I got them to protect from burns and not really for support. However they are cheap and can be done fast so it couldn't hurt to try. I went with boots because with a dog Pan's size (I mean the feet size!) I would use more vet wrap and tape in one tournament than the cost of a pair of boots. I really HATE putting them on though so I'm super glad Nikon doesn't wear anything. They have to come off between every race because they are tight. I forgot to take Pan's off once and his front feet swelled almost double size! If you get them, I recommend Z-control. For GSDs you can order thicker neoprene and leather pads that wrap around the bottom edge. Pan's also have a dew claw shield but I don't think that matters.

Z-Control Skid Boots
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 10:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
No Stinkin' Leashes Moderator
 
Cassidy's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 29,288
Default

I don't think there are any hard and fast rules on props, they should be wherever they need to be for the particular dog, so just keep tweaking them until he's doing it the way you want him to. It's hard for me to work at home too, there's no place in the house that's big enough, and my yard is itty bitty, so I'm extremely limited on space. Now I just go to practice every week, there's really not much I can do on my own that I can't do better there once we got to a certain point in our training.

My club doesn't like skid boots for some reason, so they don't recommend them. I thought Halo would look awesome in some bright pink ones to match her flyball collar and tug, but alas we'll have to do with vet wrap. The only time I've used it is at an indoor tournament on mats. The rest of the time we've been either outdoors on grass or on an indoor soccer field with artificial turf, and I've never had any problem with her feet. On the mats I wrapped her as a preventative measure, I have no idea if she would have had a problem or not, but it seemed best to follow the advice of my teammates and wrap her up. She did look cute.

Nikon looks great, Liesje, and he's obviously having fun too! Your diagram reminded me about the snap off box work I mentioned in your thread. I did a quick sketch to show what I was talking about, it's a little different than what you're doing. Here's a picture:



The black line is the jump, the red dot at the bottom of the drawing, across the jump, is where a helper restrains the dog. The dot to the left is where the owner catches the dog, (with a right turner) so it's actually crossing over to the far side, opposite their turn side. Sometimes we have the owner stand next to the box and then as the dog is about to hit it, they run diagonally to where the dot is, or even further, other times they stand somewhere between the dot and the box, and just call the dog to them as it hits the box without moving from that position.
Cassidy's Mom is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 10:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master Member
 
KristiM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 753
Default

Posted at the same time as you Liesje Okay that is very helpful, I was also holding his toy too high I think, so tomorrow I will have him coming back off the box targeting low instead of high. Yes I am standing right there, my living room is too stinkin small! I did need to umm throw him on the box the first few lol, (he's not very sensitive) by the end he was going on his own more or less. Tomorrow I am either going to take the box outside so we have a bit more room or maybe try it in the hallway if its wide enough. I will paly around with the prop some more to get the nicest turn possible, high on the box with all 4 feet, popping off.

The braces I have are neoprene and just designed for support, I think I will leave it for now, cause ya super annoying to put on! I Agree Halo would look super cute in pink skid boots
__________________
Odin ~ GSD
Zuri ~ German Coolie

Havoc ~ (aka "Super") GSD - Rest easy buddy.
Keeper ~ (rest in peace little stinker) (Aussie)
KristiM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:37 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum